Mack

Incorrect, you're making personal attacks I'm questioning the motivating factors behind someone's opinion. We're all self interested that's not a personal attack, it's just a logical analysis of the situation and the parties within.

Again, you're the one missing the point. Making the scaling more friendly at NM WILL increase overall completions statistically speaking it's impossible for a lower barrier to complete to result in less completions directly.

You previously opposed ToB drop rate changes, are largely responsible for the major overhaul of ToB and created a discord group to profit off the difficulty people have in completing ToB (for diaries), ToB achievements, etc.

You fail to offer any recourse for new and less experienced players other than an entry mode that has highly reduced if not entirely eliminated drop rates.

I question what is it about new players, or those less skilled or with less gear being able to duo ToB that hurts the game overall to such a degree that it outweighs the sad sad state that ToB is in now?

Scythes dropped in price by 2x and no change to ToB activity caused that, most items in TP don't sell anyways bc of a lack of demand (less new players, and people doing ToB where those items are most usef
@Mack Incorrect, you're making personal attacks I'm questioning the motivating factors behind someone's opinion. We're all self interested that's not a personal attack, it's just a logical analysis of the situation and the parties within.

Again, you're the one missing the point. Making the scaling more friendly at NM WILL increase overall completions statistically speaking it's impossible for a lower barrier to complete to result in less completions directly.

You previously opposed ToB drop rate changes, are largely responsible for the major overhaul of ToB and created a discord group to profit off the difficulty people have in completing ToB (for diaries), ToB achievements, etc.

You fail to offer any recourse for new and less experienced players other than an entry mode that has highly reduced if not entirely eliminated drop rates.

I question what is it about new players, or those less skilled or with less gear being able to duo ToB that hurts the game overall to such a degree that it outweighs the sad sad state that ToB is in now?

Scythes dropped in price by 2x and no change to ToB activity caused that, most items in TP don't sell anyways bc of a lack of demand (less new players, and people doing ToB where those items are most useful).

What harm does it cause players to have to redo speedruns

Yet again nothing you say has to do with duo and solo ToB having HP reduced by 10% per few player, which is what this suggestion is about.

I’d suggest creating your own topic as the points you’re attempting to raise are irrelevant.

Nice personal attack, I wonder why you're not welcome to dissenting opinions from your own. The overwhelming majority of support on this thread illustrates a need for this.

Again "just get good" is not an argument when there's nobody running ToB 90% of the time. Why shouldnt high level players just enjoy hardmode and let newer, lesser skilled players have fun in NM with 1 or 2 of their friends instead of needing to find 3 or 4?

It's not just a lack of drive, it's demotivation from the fact that you have to keep 3+ people online for long periods of time often times with repeated wipes as you're learning. Not everyone is inside of a CC, not everyone has high level friends willing to take them.

I understand it can be hard for you and other high level players to emphasize with the perspective of a new player but if alora is meant to grow new players and those not in the high level community should have their opinions heard as they are here in this thread.

ToB is not the hardest content in the game, 500+ invo ToA, inferno, and soon™ DS2 awakened variants are.

Gnomonkeys is also my favorite streamer so at least we have that in common

Humorous remark considering you’ve made several personal attacks towards the boosters. The victim card bit is getting rather old from you.

Blind support from those that don’t understand the topic doesn’t make it a good choice for the game. A suggestion to make donator ranks cost half as much or to boost drop rates would probably get a ton of support but that doesn’t make it good idea.

“Get good” is in fact a valid argument, you being too lazy to do so doesn’t change that. Why should players that enjoy the raid and took the time to learn it be forced to only do hard mode because others refuse to put in minimal effort to learn the raid? That doesn’t seem very logical. You don’t reward players with a fang kit from a 150 ToA because it’s too hard and people don’t want to learn 500s or get the gear to do so.

And you continue to miss the point and fail to provide a valid response to the fact that 10% less HP per player will not result in more people being able to solo or duo. You whining about the raid being too difficult has nothing to do with the amount of HP in a duo raid.

If ToB isn’t the hardest content in game then players should have no issue learning it based on the number of fang kits you see in game. :)

10000% support on this. ToB has been dead content for a long time and the idea that players should just "get better" isn't really helpful when the opportunity for learning isn't the same as it was in the past. Nowadays if someone wants to learn there is nearly 0 chance of finding a team even at peak times, on bonuses the players who do ToB are less likely to take learners as well.


I think lowering not necessarily the raid difficulty overall but scaling - would help achieve this. (I would also support making the raid easier though, that's a different topic). This coming from a Comp'd GIM whos only remaining (reasonable) end game grind is ToB.

I'd also like to take a second to acknowledge that there seems to be an organized effort to vote down this suggestion even though the majority of the community seems to support it.

Some of those who do in fact own/are a part of an organized group that SELLS access to both ToB runs, achievements, AND learning. Wouldn't they have a vested interest in this not passing as they operate an in-game business that benefits from restricted access to ToB?

Not surprising to get such a clueless take from this individual.

The narrative that ToB is gatekept is frankly laughable. The only thing keeping people from learning ToB is themselves and a lack of drive or laziness. Everyone that is adept at ToB currently had to relearn parts of the raid when it was changed so it is no different for anyone else.

Boosters don’t sell the ability to learn ToB, the guide and vast resources on the internet are publicly available.Boosters do offer the option to get ToB kc for the diary if people desire to, just like players that don’t want to learn the Inferno can custom donate for a cape.

If you think people unable to complete a single raid or buying boosts are going to be capable of duoing raid with 10% less HP you are delusional. 90% of the comments on this thread are from those with little to no ToB kc that have not attempted or completed duos in their current form. If you are failing duos currently it’s because you lack knowledge or skill within the raid, not because the bosses have 10% more HP. Not to mention, the nylo as room is the main brick wall for solos and duos due to having random spawns instead of fixed. But only those that understand duos or solos would know that.

This reduced scaling was in the game for a month previously and nothing changed in the number of people doing duo or solo scales. It was the same people that were already capable of doing those scales.

If there is to be any change it should be a practice mode or entry variant for so people can practice Verzik, nylo, etc.

No support.

 

There's nothing wrong with the current scaling of TOB. After the nerf to Verzik's attacks you use next to no supplies throughout the entire raid in normal mode. The healing from a blood fury can completely negate the damage Verzik inflicts through prayer.

 

If it's "too rough" for you then you are doing something wrong and nerfing hitpoints isn't the solution to that. The tweak to HP isn't going to be the reason a duo completes or fails a raid, learning mechanics and playing strategically will. 

 

Claiming TOB is too difficult without 100% BIS weapons isn't remotely truthful. The Duo GM speed time is completable without scythe or twisted bow.

 

And like Neuro mentioned, continuously nerfing the raid isn't going to result in more people duoing or soloing TOB.