46 replies to this topic

[Real Alex]

100%. Realism market is seriously broken and unviable for any newcomers. A merge would settle the economy on both sides.
In addition, exchange of realism:normie GP should also be banned if they ban GIM item selling.

People are so adamant on realism being a separate economy but will happily purchase GP using normie GP.

Imagine playing a game mode that forces you to grind items separately from the normal mode however you use normal mode GP to buy items for the separate game mode…. Sounds familiar no?

"exchange of realism/normie (Both which allow open trading between accounts) should also be banned if they ban GIM item (Ironman items you are only allowed to share with your 4 other team mates) selling" LOL someone take this man home he must be drunk. Your bs replies are so self-serving they don't even warrant being part of a real conversation

[Ivy]

"exchange of realism/normie (Both which allow open trading between accounts) should also be banned if they ban GIM item (Ironman items you are only allowed to share with your 4 other team mates) selling" LOL someone take this man home he must be drunk. Your bs replies are so self-serving they don't even warrant being part of a real conversation

Reading comments like this makes me laugh, typical Alora forum shit posters trying to get their post count up because there gamemodes brought into it.

@Formula One is clearly making a valid point, if you want to keep every community happy, all you need to do is make it fair around the board. However as soon as realism is brought into it, we get you members who sulk and cry about it.

Also, I think you're the one who's drunk, as I almost had a stroke reading this.

[H]

If we waited for OSRS to release GIM first, we could've implemented their system where if you received items from a member that wasn't in your group originally then you'd receive the green helm icon. 

Too late to do that now though and it would be unfair for GIM players that make accounts now.

 

No support.

[Formula One]

"exchange of realism/normie (Both which allow open trading between accounts) should also be banned if they ban GIM item (Ironman items you are only allowed to share with your 4 other team mates) selling" LOL someone take this man home he must be drunk. Your bs replies are so self-serving they don't even warrant being part of a real conversation

What is the purpose of keeping a separate economy for realism if we’re able to trade between normie/realism?
Might as well cut out the middle man and merge the economies so there’s no ridiculous premium on items.

People who play an Ironman and purchase items from other GIM players seem to do so purely to maintain the GIM status, pure speculation here, otherwise you might as well play normie and save the billions of GP you’d pay on premium.
Same goes for realism, we play that mode for the added challenge of lower exp rates (and other minor differences). If we wanted to keep that game mode pure, to add fairness if GIM aren’t allowed to work around the system to purchase items, the same restrictions should be implemented for realism/normie trading. Otherwise just merge the economy.

[Italy]

@Formula One educated you on how this suggestion doesn't make sense, whether that bothers you or not. No Support from me as well.

Also, it's not that deep. Just enjoy your playthrough and let people enjoy theirs.

[LAST RIDE]

What about not removing this "perk" kek but adding a way to avoid many often trades.

[Real Alan]

What is the purpose of keeping a separate economy for realism if we’re able to trade between normie/realism?

 

What's the purpose of keeping a separate economy for DMM and OSRS?  The items in the economies are obtained under different rules. 

On DMM, barrows items are obtained under dangerous circumstances (different rule).  Consequently, there is less supply and more demand of barrows item than on the regular game.  This makes barrows items more expensive.  If you merge the two ecos, then there'd be no point in doing barrows on DMM anymore. 

How come?  Because why take that risk of being attacked by another player while you do barrows when you can just do it on regular OSRS where it's safe? 

This is why merging two economies created under different rules is super problematic. 

 

To draw a parallel to Realism, a casket yields half the amount of coins on Realism as on Normie (different rule).  So coins are worth roughly 2:1.  

Also, ultimate mystery boxes aren't available on Realism (different rule).  So endgame pvp items aren't being spawned into the economy.

If you spawn items into the eco, you create excess supply -> Then, under constant demand, prices will drop -> making pvming less profitable -> and eventually making the activity no longer worth doing.  Think about it.  Why do PVM for profit on Realism (2x) when you can just do it on Normie (325x)?

 

Not to mention, Normie eco also has dupes pumped into it by ironmen who contribute to supply but not demand, which will further drop item prices.  Why?

Imagine having a bunch of shark fishing bots on OSRS.  They would add artificial supply to eco and drive prices of raw shark down.

If prices of raw shark plummet, it becomes no longer profitable for legitimate players to manually fish shark.

Similarly, if you allow these ironman dupes into the realism eco (raw shark), the same thing would happen to the price of realism raw sharks.  It would plummet.

Consequently, that would make it no longer worth fishing shark for profit on Realism because you can just fish on iron where leveling is 20x as fast (different rule)

 

Keep in mind what makes a game fun -> A game's payout must match its time investment.

You might think lowering prices makes the game more accessible for new players, but in reality lowering prices (through artificial supply) just compromises the authenticity of the economy and undermines the challenge (and gratification upon success) of the Realism game mode.

 

Lastly, consider why Realism players swap GP with Normie.  Realism players need donator rank, but rank tickets and bonds are mostly sold on Normie.  Put those same rank tickets and bonds on the Realism TP for 1/2 the price of normie and you'd see a lot less swapping Realism for Normie. 

Too late to do that now though and it would be unfair for GIM players that make accounts now

 

 

Here's the cycle of GIM for you

 

New GIM team forms -> they gather items -> group member get busy with life or bored -> they buy GIM replacement tickets -> new teammates join / buys bank -> old GIM player sells GIM bank then gambles or goes for rank -> team goes through several cycles of this -> eventually team only has 1 or 2 people active -> drops take longer and longer -> more complain about dupes & dryness -> game gets boring -> whole GIM team quits and tries to sell banks -> they await the next victim to fall into this trap of bullshit fakeass ironman buymanmode

 

I honestly think correcting this bullshittery of buying/selling ironman bank is the best way to help new GIM players.

[H]

New GIM team forms -> they gather items -> group member get busy with life or bored -> they buy GIM replacement tickets -> new teammates join / buys bank -> old GIM player sells GIM bank then gambles or goes for rank -> team goes through several cycles of this -> eventually team only has 1 or 2 people active -> drops take longer and longer -> more complain about dupes & dryness -> game gets boring -> whole GIM team quits and tries to sell banks -> they await the next victim to fall into this trap of bullshit fakeass ironman buymanmode

 

So if I'm understanding correctly, and feel free to correct me. But you're suggesting to cut down the cycle you made above to just the first part that I didn't strike out? Like I said in my first reply, if we had a similar system as OSRS and ranked GIM players outside of their groups with the green GIM helmet icon, and those that didn't trade outside their group a blue GIM icon, we could've avoided this whole suggestion.

But again, in my opinion it's too late to change it now considering a big majority of end-game GIM's have merged with other groups already. If this suggestion was to be accepted, you'd have half late game GIM's with items they didn't grind for, and the new up and coming GIM's forced to get every single item by themselves, which compromises the integrity of the game mode, if you will(although you could say it's already compromised, but that's another whole discussion).

[Formula One]

What's the purpose of keeping a separate economy for DMM and OSRS?  The items in the economies are obtained under different rules. 
On DMM, barrows items are obtained under dangerous circumstances (different rule).  Consequently, there is less supply and more demand of barrows item than on the regular game.  This makes barrows items more expensive.  If you merge the two ecos, then there'd be no point in doing barrows on DMM anymore. 
How come?  Because why take that risk of being attacked by another player while you do barrows when you can just do it on regular OSRS where it's safe? 
This is why merging two economies created under different rules is super problematic. 
 
To draw a parallel to Realism, a casket yields half the amount of coins on Realism as on Normie (different rule).  So coins are worth roughly 2:1.  
Also, ultimate mystery boxes aren't available on Realism (different rule).  So endgame pvp items aren't being spawned into the economy.
If you spawn items into the eco, you create excess supply -> Then, under constant demand, prices will drop -> making pvming less profitable -> and eventually making the activity no longer worth doing.  Think about it.  Why do PVM for profit on Realism (2x) when you can just do it on Normie (325x)?
 
Not to mention, Normie eco also has dupes pumped into it by ironmen who contribute to supply but not demand, which will further drop item prices.  Why?
Imagine having a bunch of shark fishing bots on OSRS.  They would add artificial supply to eco and drive prices of raw shark down.
If prices of raw shark plummet, it becomes no longer profitable for legitimate players to manually fish shark.
Similarly, if you allow these ironman dupes into the realism eco (raw shark), the same thing would happen to the price of realism raw sharks.  It would plummet.
Consequently, that would make it no longer worth fishing shark for profit on Realism because you can just fish on iron where leveling is 20x as fast (different rule)
 
Keep in mind what makes a game fun -> A game's payout must match its time investment.
You might think lowering prices makes the game more accessible for new players, but in reality lowering prices (through artificial supply) just compromises the authenticity of the economy and undermines the challenge (and gratification upon success) of the Realism game mode.
 
Lastly, consider why Realism players swap GP with Normie.  Realism players need donator rank, but rank tickets and bonds are mostly sold on Normie.  Put those same rank tickets and bonds on the Realism TP for 1/2 the price of normie and you'd see a lot less swapping Realism for Normie. 
 
 
Here's the cycle of GIM for you
 
New GIM team forms -> they gather items -> group member get busy with life or bored -> they buy GIM replacement tickets -> new teammates join / buys bank -> old GIM player sells GIM bank then gambles or goes for rank -> team goes through several cycles of this -> eventually team only has 1 or 2 people active -> drops take longer and longer -> more complain about dupes & dryness -> game gets boring -> whole GIM team quits and tries to sell banks -> they await the next victim to fall into this trap of bullshit fakeass ironman buymanmode
 
I honestly think correcting this bullshittery of buying/selling ironman bank is the best way to help new GIM players.

You’re comparing a completely separate game with completely different mechanics to make a relevant stance against realism:normie? I don’t even know where to begin on that or how to comprehend your logic that damn:OSRS is accurate to realism:normie.

Anywho, without writing a thesis like yourself. Nothing is stopping me from buying all realism end game gear and supplies to max my account (as you once complained people just bought max stats on realism which doesn’t validate their opinion or n realism difficulty)
Just like a GIM can purchase end game gear - hence my original point if you set a rule on one game mode this should be done for all.
Or just merge the economies. God forbid shark prices drop from 2k ea.

[Real Alan]

Nothing is stopping me from buying all realism end game gear and supplies to max my account

If you say so, champ!  Boook BoooOOoooOoook

@Gabe 0 I found you a customer!  Split me 10% commission please.  I TBed.  

 

dmm:OSRS

realism:normie

more restrictive game mode with eco:regular game mode with eco

see the pattern?

 

Point is swapping between eco game modes is OK.  Swapping between ironman game modes is NOT.

[Real Alex]

Reading comments like this makes me laugh, typical Alora forum shit posters trying to get their post count up because there gamemodes brought into it.

@Formula One is clearly making a valid point, if you want to keep every community happy, all you need to do is make it fair around the board. However as soon as realism is brought into it, we get you members who sulk and cry about it.

Also, I think you're the one who's drunk, as I almost had a stroke reading this.

The irony is blinding. Quite sure the stroke happened well before this

 

What is the purpose of keeping a separate economy for realism if we’re able to trade between normie/realism?
Might as well cut out the middle man and merge the economies so there’s no ridiculous premium on items.

People who play an Ironman and purchase items from other GIM players seem to do so purely to maintain the GIM status, pure speculation here, otherwise you might as well play normie and save the billions of GP you’d pay on premium.
Same goes for realism, we play that mode for the added challenge of lower exp rates (and other minor differences). If we wanted to keep that game mode pure, to add fairness if GIM aren’t allowed to work around the system to purchase items, the same restrictions should be implemented for realism/normie trading. Otherwise just merge the economy.

Do you not see that you are the one on this "keep realism pure" kick that you've devised as a way to say irons should be able to trade as well? Its a false equivalency full stop.  I just don't know how we get from ironmen accounts being able to buy/sell items to Realism accounts shouldn't be able to accept norm gold for items that player could then turn around and trade back for the exact same price. You said it yourself "people who play an ironman and purchase items from other gim players seem to do so pureply to maintain the gim status". Sounds like an awesome game mode you got there

[Satan Smash]

SUPPORT

I always thought it made no sense buying banks on any ironman mode. I just cant see how anybody doing that has any sense of accomplishment but to each there own. Also just makes the rest of us look bad because we didnt buy our bank i guess.

 

 

ALL HAIL OUR LORD AND SAVIOR SIRKERAVNOSL!

[Foxxi]

The only thing I can't put my finger on is why you can buy ironman items for in-game coins/items. But I can't spend my irl money for a infernal cape. I was told "this would compromise the integrity of the gamemode" but isn't buying items for in-game items doing that as well? 

[Scorn]

SUPPORT! I don't understand the logic that it's been here already and fixing it won't be fair to others.

 

If that was the case, things like Akkha safe spot (was there for a while), TOA Puzzle skip and soooo many other things would not get fixed on the basis that its not fair for the rest that didn't get a chance to abuse it.

 

There seems to be a general dislike towards Real Alan (well from people who are not in the clan anyway) but his long post was very well articulated and hit a lot of very good points. It's just being ignored because some minority (or majority?) do not have a liking towards him which is baseless and not fair.

[HoldinAP]

Support, Cuz I think buying EIM / GIM bank is like a profit version of OSRS fliping, you buy it wait a couple of months, and sell it in parts to others for 2x the prices. Just like you all wanna merge Realism, I think it is normal to trade OSRS to DMM no?

[strudelle]

i wish those ''ironman'' if we can actually call them that way, would keep there integrity but seems like some of those players prefer the ''easy'' way

you already have the opportunity to buy items that benefits you as an ironman at ;;shop for irl money/bonds or customs if you wish to speed up your early progress.

 

 making gim/eim selling and buying ( or somes are actually merching their bank) makes absolutely no senses.

 

i really wonder whats the ''fun'' part of playing those gamemodes, other than playing with some friends and grinding in team, if you can buy all the items for all your team in one trade and just quit 1 month after, then sell all again to the better offer, doesnt it just ruin all the aspect of a group ironman mode? mostly the ''ironman'' mode id say.

maybe the way to fix this either is to :

1. change their ''gamemode'' name to teamman mode, or trademan mode idk, w/e you guys would like.( this would preserve the ''ironman'' part at least.

 

2.make it as if a certain player of the team receive a certain items, if he leave the team the item goes back to his bank, he can lend the item as long as he is inside the group, no trade between teams anymore.

 

3. make it as the team can be joined for ''x''number of times( instead of the player that can make multiple alts abusing gim removal tickets,join and leave the teams, to just buy/sells items nonstop) that would prevend player just buying/selling banks over time.

 

4. just block all group ironman trades their stuff to other teams and it would be fine! ( as @Real Alan suggestions says)

i do support your suggestion to make ''group ironman'' stay group ironman and to not allow bank sells anymore, even thou we know its not gonna happens since its probably way to good money for omicron when plp swap team and use gim removal tickets and since you are ''real alan'', plp will prefer to refuse the suggestion over the player than over the actual topic.( which seems to always be the problem also)

 

 

oh and before i froget, all those realism haters that keep bringing it back to merge realism/compare realism to ironman, which is by far, not the case, it would be fair enought if we could keep it topic related, which is about been an ironman and buying /selling stuff.

 

 

 

[Ivy]

It's interesting to see all the support behind this, but then again I think anyone with a braincell can see the trend in clan support. 

 

Let's just stick to the facts.

 

If you take out GIM/EIM buying and selling of items you take out a lot of the revenue received from the custom rank transfers, which in return can cause harm to the longevity of the server as this creates less income for Alora. 

 

This isn't OSRS, this is a private server, so rules/mechanics and customisation is completely different to main game. Don't want ironmen selling their banks? Go to OSRS.

 

Let players play how they want to, is this affecting you personally? Let's create an example, You're playing a GIM and you see someone selling their bank, how does this affect your account personally? It doesn't. 

 

The only way this will impact game integrity is if the items are transferred from an ironman account to the main economy, whereas buying/selling ironmen banks stays between the game mode accounts which clearly don't have access to the economy. 

 

Time to open up them curtains, hop of your gaming chair and see how the world works, not everyone is going to agree with you. 

 

For this, I stick with my original decision of no support. 

[Defiler]

I support, but in fairness the damage has well been done by now. GIM has lost all "ironman" integrity and is basically just another realism/classic eco IMO.

[WakaWakavic]

I agree with @H and @strudelle suggestion, about turning all ironmen who has traded into different color icon and possibly renaming to a different mode. (Team mode or w/e)

Alan is talking about integrity of GIM, which no matter how much people defend, is flawed.

I'm sure the server has missed out on a ton of members simply because when a group of friends comes from OSRS and invests into GIM, they eventually see "Buying/Selling GIM bank" and go WTF???
Any effort and prestige of a group becomes useless.

As @Scorn has pointed out, sometimes there are things that are abused forever (Akkha). To be fair, changing things for the sake of integrity feels like shit, but it has to be done for longevity of the server.

 

 

 

 

Support,

TLDR: keep the removal tickets, change the name of GIM to TeamMode (Green Icon), add a legit GIM mode (Blue Icon).

If team members get bored, well the rest are SOL, only true GIM will survive.

 

[Sassa fras]

We should just merge all game modes that use a bank at this point tbh, then we wouldn't have to deal with the Merge Realism and Selling GIM Bank posts. Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk.