56 replies to this topic

[Schmoke]

As someone who would like to learn the content, bringing back scaling would definitely help make that possible. 100% support

[mochiii]

No support, the current scaling for trios+ has verzik completable in less than 1 brew + 1 restore if praying correctly. Anything further reduced will make the raid just too easy to be considered end game content. 

 

Side note we have seen multiple instances of tob nerfed and it has not changed the amount of people to tob. The hp/scaling isnt the issue its the playerbase.

[Tamber]

Scaling TOB so that it's able to be duo'd would be a great QoL update

 

Support

[Shader]

Full support, impossible to find a team. Would also make it easier to teach new players

[Sprinter]

Support 
i use to duo it didn't know it was changed 

[Shay96]

100% support, i havent played in a long while and since coming back i have done 1 run of tob due to lack of players willing to do such piece of content, yes people state this is the hardest content in the game but alongside that it is not a viable piece of content due the low playerbase

[Arosa]

BIG SUPPORT! 

There is absolutely no reason not to scale it down. I second all the other very good reasons on this suggestion why this should be implemented! +1

[Selenagomez]

L take stop trying to gatekeep content from other players its a private server if you want real hard endgame content OSRS awaits you.

No support, the current scaling for trios+ has verzik completable in less than 1 brew + 1 restore if praying correctly. Anything further reduced will make the raid just too easy to be considered end game content. 

 

Side note we have seen multiple instances of tob nerfed and it has not changed the amount of people to tob. The hp/scaling isnt the issue its the playerbase.

 

[Clappy]

Support because with the state of finding groups, duo's or even solo's should be about as hard as Cox/Toa solo and now that's not the case.

[EIM Eckius]

100% support! Not to much people can do TOA in Alora.We need it.

[Sagacious]

Agree with @mochiii, @Miq and @Mack. The core issue with finding players to ToB has always been the player base and people not wanting to learn the raid. Even before the last scaling changes, there were barely anyone doing the content.

 

My issue with making it easier to do as solo/duo is the fact that it will become so easy that it defeats the point of it being endgame content. It is not supposed to be easy, especially solo and duo ToB. You are supposed to have really good gear for those and experience in the raid. CoX is supposed to be endgame content but you can basically do it with Void, Whip, Trident and Blowpipe as a SOLO player quite easily and in reasonable time. It's not challenging whatsoever (admittedly some of it is due to the mechanics being simplified, though). I really hope @Omicron listens to the players who actually care about the raid being a bit more difficult and not a snooze fest that it was before the rework. It has already been nerfed to a point that it should not be too hard to do without max gear in smaller teams as long as everyone knows what they are doing. For example, before the last scaling changes, I was able to do solo HM ToB with Bandos, Whip, Void and Blowpipe. It should not be that easy in my honest opinion.

 

I understand that people are frustrated and can not find enough players to run 3-5mans regularly but that's always been the case. When I first started doing ToB, it was only a handful of players as well and I had to learn duos and inevitably solos (which was more for the challenge than anything else) and guess what, I did not complain for the lack of players and did those horrible 24min duo times with some friends that wanted to grind the content as well. In addition, the rates of rares are better now and the content is not just sitting there and Tbowing the whole way and the issue remains: not enough people want to do the content. A similar trend can be seen with the Nightmare. The drops are lackluster and rare items are not BiS anymore or can be seen as not worth the grind but that's quite another topic altogether. Alora strikes to be as close as possible to OSRS and making the only, somewhat challenging, raid easier is not the way to go in my opinion.

[96]

Support scaling for duos and solos also. I don't see a reason to gatekeep the content. Alora simply doesn't have the player base to sustain group content (NM and Nex included) and players shouldn't be locked out of content simply because they don't have a team. No one who doesn't know the mechanics is going to be running solos if it's scaled down. You still have to learn how to tob it just makes it so people can actually run the raid because as of right now I hardly consider TOB to even be part of playable content. As far as devaluing Tob's difficulty there's still hard mode (Which nobody runs lol) could leave that untouched or make it more difficult if players want a challenge.

[The Inferno]

Big support. For the short time duo scaling were implemented, TOB was actually quite enjoyable content

[SCIM Tamber]

Solo - No support

Duo - 100% support

 

imo TOB should remain a group-based raid but finding 3+ players can be a struggle...I'd definitely support it being scaled down so it's able to be duo'd

[gim crohn]

10000% support on this. ToB has been dead content for a long time and the idea that players should just "get better" isn't really helpful when the opportunity for learning isn't the same as it was in the past. Nowadays if someone wants to learn there is nearly 0 chance of finding a team even at peak times, on bonuses the players who do ToB are less likely to take learners as well.


I think lowering not necessarily the raid difficulty overall but scaling - would help achieve this. (I would also support making the raid easier though, that's a different topic). This coming from a Comp'd GIM whos only remaining (reasonable) end game grind is ToB.

I'd also like to take a second to acknowledge that there seems to be an organized effort to vote down this suggestion even though the majority of the community seems to support it.

Some of those who do in fact own/are a part of an organized group that SELLS access to both ToB runs, achievements, AND learning. Wouldn't they have a vested interest in this not passing as they operate an in-game business that benefits from restricted access to ToB?

[Scorn]

100% agree with this. It's quite overwhelming asking a team that says need +1 tob when you aren't that good in the raid.

 

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing the normal mode have this lower scaling and hard mode remaining the same with better loot rates.

 

This way the solo/duos can start with normal mode to "git gud" then join the 3-5 players in hard mode for better loot rates. Everyone wins! Well apart from the boosters :kekw:

[Mack]

10000% support on this. ToB has been dead content for a long time and the idea that players should just "get better" isn't really helpful when the opportunity for learning isn't the same as it was in the past. Nowadays if someone wants to learn there is nearly 0 chance of finding a team even at peak times, on bonuses the players who do ToB are less likely to take learners as well.


I think lowering not necessarily the raid difficulty overall but scaling - would help achieve this. (I would also support making the raid easier though, that's a different topic). This coming from a Comp'd GIM whos only remaining (reasonable) end game grind is ToB.

I'd also like to take a second to acknowledge that there seems to be an organized effort to vote down this suggestion even though the majority of the community seems to support it.

Some of those who do in fact own/are a part of an organized group that SELLS access to both ToB runs, achievements, AND learning. Wouldn't they have a vested interest in this not passing as they operate an in-game business that benefits from restricted access to ToB?

Not surprising to get such a clueless take from this individual.

The narrative that ToB is gatekept is frankly laughable. The only thing keeping people from learning ToB is themselves and a lack of drive or laziness. Everyone that is adept at ToB currently had to relearn parts of the raid when it was changed so it is no different for anyone else.

Boosters don’t sell the ability to learn ToB, the guide and vast resources on the internet are publicly available.Boosters do offer the option to get ToB kc for the diary if people desire to, just like players that don’t want to learn the Inferno can custom donate for a cape.

If you think people unable to complete a single raid or buying boosts are going to be capable of duoing raid with 10% less HP you are delusional. 90% of the comments on this thread are from those with little to no ToB kc that have not attempted or completed duos in their current form. If you are failing duos currently it’s because you lack knowledge or skill within the raid, not because the bosses have 10% more HP. Not to mention, the nylo as room is the main brick wall for solos and duos due to having random spawns instead of fixed. But only those that understand duos or solos would know that.

This reduced scaling was in the game for a month previously and nothing changed in the number of people doing duo or solo scales. It was the same people that were already capable of doing those scales.

If there is to be any change it should be a practice mode or entry variant for so people can practice Verzik, nylo, etc.

[gim crohn]

Not surprising to get such a clueless take from this individual.

Nice personal attack, I wonder why you're not welcome to dissenting opinions from your own. The overwhelming majority of support on this thread illustrates a need for this.

Again "just get good" is not an argument when there's nobody running ToB 90% of the time. Why shouldnt high level players just enjoy hardmode and let newer, lesser skilled players have fun in NM with 1 or 2 of their friends instead of needing to find 3 or 4?

It's not just a lack of drive, it's demotivation from the fact that you have to keep 3+ people online for long periods of time often times with repeated wipes as you're learning. Not everyone is inside of a CC, not everyone has high level friends willing to take them.

I understand it can be hard for you and other high level players to emphasize with the perspective of a new player but if alora is meant to grow new players and those not in the high level community should have their opinions heard as they are here in this thread.

ToB is not the hardest content in the game, 500+ invo ToA, inferno, and soon™ DS2 awakened variants are.

Gnomonkeys is also my favorite streamer so at least we have that in common

[St8]

No way the gatekeepers are saying no support lollllll

[Mack]

Nice personal attack, I wonder why you're not welcome to dissenting opinions from your own. The overwhelming majority of support on this thread illustrates a need for this.

Again "just get good" is not an argument when there's nobody running ToB 90% of the time. Why shouldnt high level players just enjoy hardmode and let newer, lesser skilled players have fun in NM with 1 or 2 of their friends instead of needing to find 3 or 4?

It's not just a lack of drive, it's demotivation from the fact that you have to keep 3+ people online for long periods of time often times with repeated wipes as you're learning. Not everyone is inside of a CC, not everyone has high level friends willing to take them.

I understand it can be hard for you and other high level players to emphasize with the perspective of a new player but if alora is meant to grow new players and those not in the high level community should have their opinions heard as they are here in this thread.

ToB is not the hardest content in the game, 500+ invo ToA, inferno, and soon™ DS2 awakened variants are.

Gnomonkeys is also my favorite streamer so at least we have that in common

Humorous remark considering you’ve made several personal attacks towards the boosters. The victim card bit is getting rather old from you.

Blind support from those that don’t understand the topic doesn’t make it a good choice for the game. A suggestion to make donator ranks cost half as much or to boost drop rates would probably get a ton of support but that doesn’t make it good idea.

“Get good” is in fact a valid argument, you being too lazy to do so doesn’t change that. Why should players that enjoy the raid and took the time to learn it be forced to only do hard mode because others refuse to put in minimal effort to learn the raid? That doesn’t seem very logical. You don’t reward players with a fang kit from a 150 ToA because it’s too hard and people don’t want to learn 500s or get the gear to do so.

And you continue to miss the point and fail to provide a valid response to the fact that 10% less HP per player will not result in more people being able to solo or duo. You whining about the raid being too difficult has nothing to do with the amount of HP in a duo raid.

If ToB isn’t the hardest content in game then players should have no issue learning it based on the number of fang kits you see in game. :)