33 replies to this topic

[GIM Johno]

Just ran a couple of ToB's since the latest update and it was utterely unplayable.

 

Whilst I agree that keeping true to OSRS is in everyones best interest but ToB is already dead content and updating to make Verzik practically impossible to hit unless you have a Scythe is making it worse. Bloat stomps with no animation so you get randomly slapped for between 40-80.. then you're unable to use game features like DWH to decrease Verzik defence to combat the stupid defence increase.

 

Why is dead content being updated to make it worse without any community poll? It's already a struggle to get a team, now when you do, X out of Y you fail due to a team wipe and then you spend 20 mins killing Verzik. If you do succeed you get rewarded with crap.

[St8]

Agree. Maybe nerf the defence on some of the bosses  

[Mhk]

I agree with your feedback, before the most recent update, some people were just starting to do TOB runs again, which would usually only be during bonus when 2-3 groups would run, even then they would do 2 runs.

 

It was already pretty dead before but this most recent update killed it for sure, it already has a couple one shot mechanics, now verzik can literally use all your brews even if you're 100% correct on prays.

 

Why would I want to do TOB when I have to spend 30 minutes - 1 hour finding a team, then do 1-2 runs to maybe not wipe, its absolutely in terrible shape at the moment. I'm fine with some of these mechanic updates, but scale it down so people actually want to do the content.

[96]

Agreed, the mechanic update and all is whatever but locking out newer players without max gear isn't the move. Tob is already dead except on bonus and only ran by a few players. I've done many different versions of tob and this by far the worst/most inactive I've seen it. It's almost as if we're discouraging players from running it or getting into it at this point. As ahk said it takes so long to find a team and now that there's a higher gear/experience requirement it's even more difficult as otherwise you're going to waste 20 minutes wiping at verzik not to mention the issue is still there of newer players not being able to complete to achievements because it's too inactive. Making dead content more difficult doesn't make it more active.

[It Happened]

just keeping it honest, could care less about mechanic changes as learning is a part of any game but like username v2 mentioned in all versions of tob this has to be one of worse shape activity wise, could see how it must be annoying for players who are new/ don't have the best gear as before this update most teams wouldn't even let you with them without tbow/scythe, so doubt with the recent changes that helped the situation at all XD just throwing out my opinion

[Radagon]

ToB mechanics aside, I think that the server could benefit from a change in regards to how major changes are implemented into the server. If it's suggested on the forums with overwhelming support, then you know it's going to be a favorable change. However, if it's a change that was never suggested by a player, it could be polled prior to being implemented (like how jagex does it). By doing so, you could avoid this problem in the future. Unless of course this change to verzik was suggested, accepted, and then implemented as a result, then just disregard everything I said lol.

[Donkey asser]

skill issue, everyone complaining about this didnt even do tob when it was easy, just learn the new mechanics. its not hard

[strudelle]

tob was already dead content and then the drop rate has been increased to push more player to try it, which was a good thing.

 

 

now they changed the mechanics to make it even worst and harder  than b4  the lower drop rate.


if you dont have 4 good man with max gear doing it you get killed at verzik or if you get an early planker ur fucked since its defence is so high, you cant deal enought dmgs and the red crab hearlers overheal all ur hits.

 

should be able to dwh verzik or lower the defence in someway / or revert everything with the lower drop rate but make it playable

[LAST RIDE]

Make tob worse again 

[Mhk]

skill issue, everyone complaining about this didnt even do tob when it was easy, just learn the new mechanics. its not hard

I have like 400ish KC on my accounts, username has like 1.4k, everyone on this thread pretty much has TOB kc?

 

Have you tried to run a public group rather than a group of people in your discord with absolute max since the most recent change?

 

Not to mention, there isn't one specific individual complaining about it, it's pretty much whole server, no one runs groups outside of bonus, there are people on this thread 'complaining' that know the mechanics, but adding mechanics isn't helping to make it more active, rather it's been doing the opposite.

 

There's no reason to stomp TOB content into the ground because only a handful of people can run it and you think it's a skill issue, it obviously needs to get scaled down from what it's at right now.

 

 

It's almost as if we're discouraging players from running it or getting into it at this point

 

I'd say this is the most accurate take right now, making barely active content harder to complete for players is / was the wrong move. This just makes the handful of people with already max gear control the price on TOB items like people trying to sell avernic, the most common drop, for ~600m - 900m.

 

Drop rate increases aren't the thing it needs to become active, I would scale down the difficulty of it and/or remove some mechanics.

 

[6 Iron]

Make Verzik Great Again!

[It Happened]

“Not to mention, there isn't one specific individual complaining about it, it's pretty much whole server, no one runs groups outside of bonus, there are people on this thread 'complaining' that know the mechanics, but adding mechanics isn't helping to make it more active, rather it's been doing the opposite.”

“There's no reason to stomp TOB content into the ground because only a handful of people can run it and you think it's a skill issue, it obviously needs to get scaled down from what it's at right now.”


~ this is the main thing I agree with, not sure if people wanna keep lying to themselves but tob is dead in the end no one can try to say its not, the second Moe turns on bonuses people say “dead bonus”, my second issue is most comments on here clearly state its not because of mechanics as most of us have literally did TOB before and after update (not everyone has to have kc on only 1 acc XD), but the point is we are not thinking about ourselves or the 7+ people who can do it, there is an entire server to think about, yes they can learn but thats not the point, if thats how it should have been then how come when Omi released polls to make Zulrah, cerb, sire, kraken more 1:1 with osrs, community feedback disliked it, so no release (we could have learned?) cant pick and choose lol, the only thing bugging me is why half the server is complaining in-game, but not speaking up on forums so I can see why stuff like this happens in the first place.

[M Condor]

Support, imagine not having 4 people in absolute MAX gear to run TOB with...

[Selenagomez]

Verzik definitely needs nerf

[saeed]

Tob is supposed to be a melee raid, atleast for verzik now its the case.  it's definitely harder than it was, but not as much as you think, only once you learn the melee mechanics of verzik, you dont actually "need" scythe to do it, a tent whip does the job so does fang, blade and rapier.. but ofc the scythe does make it much easier. For the other bosses i think its much more enjoyable as of right now, because all i can remember is silly bugs everywhere which made it a pain in the ass. 

 

I think a solution would be an entry mode for tob  (like a practice mode) but where u start at verzik to learn the melee mechanics without losing 20mins of ur time if the team plank, this could be done in a group/solo as u wish. ofc the entry mode wouldnt give any rewards upon completion. 

[Mack]

Theatre of Blood is the most fun content in the game currently once you take the time to understand and learn the mechanics. You don't need max gear to do the raid, obviously gear helps but the same can be said for any boss or raid. However, it does require you to actually take some time to understand the updates to mechanics.

 

Most of the "random" people I raid with have no idea what they're doing inside the raid. They haven't looked at guides or looked into the changes, they just intend to wing it and the Theatre of Blood is a very punishing raid when it comes to mistakes. I do think some tweaks could be made to make it less punishing, but I'll touch on those later.

 

The most recent changes to Verzik's defense stats were a fix to a several year-old bug that caused Verzik to always have her Phase 1 stats despite transforming into her Phase 2 and Phase 3 forms.

 

 

This bug is the only reason the Twisted bow or Blowpipe were ever effective weapons at Verzik. Theatre of Blood by design is a melee focused raid so now that Verzik is functioning properly meleeing her is required if you want to deal with her quickly.

 

There is also a bug with attack styles currently that is causing some players to be using one attack style despite having another one selected. For example, your scythe is stuck on crush despite having it on a slash option. This leads to less DPS and accuracy on Verzik because of the incorrect style. This will hopefully be fixed in the next update and help with some of the low DPS claims. 

 

Now for some proposed tweaks to the raid to make it a bit less punishing on mistakes and learning.

 

• Increase the damage reduction when correct overhead prayers are used.
  • Verzik's max hit through prayer is currently 18-19. The prayer reduction could be buffed to 60% reduction, so her max hit is only 13 through prayer.
• Reduce the max hit of Verzik's melee attack in normal mode TOB.
  • This is where a lot of players lose DPS at Verzik. They don't understand how to tank and end up getting their team meleed for large amounts of damage. All you have to do is step a few tiles under or away from Verzik before she attacks.
• Reduce the max hit of Bloat's stomp attack in normal mode TOB.
  • There is a bug currently where if you enter the room late and Bloat is on the other side of the room you won't see the stomp animation as Bloat begins to move again. Outside of that the stomp damage is completely avoidable if you count how many attacks you can do depending on how early or late you get to Bloat when it goes down.

 

Here's an incredibly scuffed trio run in gear that anyone attempting an end game raid should have access to.

We all have plenty of supplies left over despite making several mistakes at Verzik and other places in the raid.

The only difference is some people have taken the time to learn the updated mechanics.

 

 

[It Happened]

Last comment i’ll make is I see the arguement from Saeed and Mack’s POV cause thats how it should be BUT at the end of day theres hella pvm content already in alora thats not 1:1 with osrs, so im not sure why out of everything TOB which was already dead was the one chosen, but it is what it is XD

[saeed]

I think the most important point that is being totally ignored is that we finally have a TOB that isnt hella buggy, which i remember is why it was dead content in the first place. Now not only that, we also have improved drop rate which is a bit more motivating in a way, whats left is to learn the lil few mechanics added to it. 

 

Which is why i brought up the entry mode suggestion on my previous comment, this could be helpful for everyone.

[mochiii]

Players do be complaining about anything and everything, before the biggest issue with TOB was "so many bugs its so unplayable, verzik was so afk bla bla bla" and now that the mechanics have been fixed to a great extent now the complain is "tob is now too hard and i cant complete it with my eyes closed". As showcased above you dont need max gear and raid weapons' to complete TOB.

The whole "dead content" complaint about it was always there before and after every change that was made to improve tob from mechanics to drop rates. This issue will always be around since the community is not as large to host 5 man cute noob groups to complete TOB on the fly. With the recent change the HP of the raid actully scales now where u can complete it with 3 players no problem, duo and solo are the ones that will struggle more. 

 

Some tweaks are necessary to improve some animations and potentially 

Now for some proposed tweaks to the raid to make it a bit less punishing on mistakes and learning.  

• Increase the damage reduction when correct overhead prayers are used.
  • Verzik's max hit through prayer is currently 18-19. The prayer reduction could be buffed to 60% reduction, so her max hit is only 13 through prayer.
• Reduce the max hit of Verzik's melee attack in normal mode TOB.
  • This is where a lot of players lose DPS at Verzik. They don't understand how to tank and end up getting their team meleed for large amounts of damage. All you have to do is step a few tiles under or away from Verzik before she attacks.
• Reduce the max hit of Bloat's stomp attack in normal mode TOB.
  • There is a bug currently where if you enter the room late and Bloat is on the other side of the room you won't see the stomp animation as Bloat begins to move again. Outside of that the stomp damage is completely avoidable if you count how many attacks you can do depending on how early or late you get to Bloat when it goes down.
• Allow defense reducing special attacks to be used on Phase 3 of Verzik.
  • Damage with melee weapons is just fine without reducing Verzik's defense. This change would just make all attack more accurate and allow people that don't know how to run webs with melee to deal a bit more damage when ranging.

All in all people just need to read/learn and understand the room mechanics, its not difficult at all to learn, but expecting to go into the raid with ur eyes closed and get to the chest room with little to no effort that just ruins the experience entirely. These changes were made for a reason to not only improve how the raid functions but make it enjoyable.

Im not going to get into "oh but other things on alora arnt 1:1 to osrs" personally if we can make mechanic update changes to alot of the pvm bosses to match and include new attack styles etc... we should, but rn i know the devs have a new content on their time table for when those get released.

[Tauri]

Hi!

My two cents on why ToB is in the state it is right now is not due to the difficulty, rather than rewards.

Lets go over the rare items quickly:

Avernic - BiS str bonus shield slot, relatively common amongst purples, so if ppl get it they dont feel like going any further.

Rapier - good melee weapon, but so is fang, blade of saeldor etc, so not absolutely essential

Justiciar armor - kekw

Sang staff - neat 4-tick staff, but consumes lots of blood runes and has +2 max hits over trident (heal kinda irrelevant)

Scythe - niche weapon, which is relatively decent in alora, but absolutely unnecessary for most of the late-game content


Okay, anything other than Avernic is not a necessity/absolute BiS in Alora. Now, if you do ToB and start getting dupes, what do you with them? There is no decent market for the items, as theyre either pricy, one-time upgrade or useless. If there would be a market for it, then it would make sense to start splitting amongst the groups of people you are doing the content with, which would give you atleast an incentive to do the content. If splitting was a thing, people would be more motivated to learn and do the content, considering how decent of a money maker it could potentially be.

In the end, its not about the difficulty, its rather the rewards which is the reason why people do not wanna tob. You get better upgrades from other raids/nex then from tob, making more sense to invest your time into other content.