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A discussion on Rule 1 b)


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Posted 20 March 2023 - 07:53 PM #1

gim crohn
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I want to begin this post by urging (ironically) respect AND charitability.

If you don't understand someone's position in the comments try and PM them and ask directly or if you must interpret use the most charitable position.

I also would suggest NOT including any player names, including staff members. This allows us to separate emotions and preconceptions of everyone involved and prevent harassment.

As of the past few months others and I have observed rule 1.B) punishments becoming more and more frequent. This has almost exclusively been interpreted as "Staff Disrespect/Flaming" Many of these have also skipped stages in the punishment process expediting harsher punishments.

For those unfamiliar in full text the rule is as follows:

• b. Content that is publicized via world yell, public chat, or clan chat that is deemed inappropriate, demeaning, or disrespectful per a staff member’s discretion is not permitted and will correspond with the punishments stated above.

Now if you don't know, I do have some IRL experience (5 years) with understanding and interpreting legal statutes.

It is my opinion that this is intended as an umbrella statement that fills in the gaps of sub-section a) to allow staff to punnish someone for demeaning or disrespectful comments that don't fit in the aforementioned categories in sub-section a). As of recently however this rule has been frequently used as a justification to punnish those who've disrespected, demeaned, or hurt the feelings of select staff members.

It is of my opinion and that of many others who play Alora that staff members act as the police and government of the game. To maintain order and facilitate administration. If we draw a comparison to the real world, police and other government administration are not free from criticism, insult, degradation or disrespect. This enables accountability.

In fact satirical or insulting forms of commentary towards these officials is one of the most common and popular forms of modern comedy. Now as volunteers I believe staff should be able to be insulated from the most extreme instances of this. With punishments for racist/sexist/etc comments still being on the table. I do believe much of this could be resolved by allowing staff to use the ignore list in otherwise significant examples of disrespect.

I would like to make it clear that this is a difficult issue and I don't have a perfect solution for it. I do personally believe that currently the interpretation is too vague.

A staff member should be able to communicate with someone who is upset, unfriendly, or disrespectful or at the least delegate that situation to someone else to de-escalate.

Also a player, who may be emotional or overreacting should be able to communicate without feeling as if they're stepping on eggshells not to say anything that could be interpreted as disrespectful or rude to a staff member. All of the communities favorite staff members have been able to navigate this situation with grace and rarely if ever needing to utilize punishing people with this rule. A great example of this was the Infamous Fally Riots and subsequent riots inside of the theatre against a former admin. Often by being funnier, more thoughtful or just killing them with kindness each of these staff members have been favorites in the community because of this. This does describe a plurality of the current staff team by the way imo.

Perhaps I'm biased or misguided on this and much of the community disagrees. However, I encourage you all to take yourself outside of your own preconceptions and think about how you would feel on the players side - would you be likely to reform and continue playing this game or would you be resentful. Hopefully one of y'all is smarter than I and has a better perspective or solution but I'm watching many people leave the game and I think this may play at least a small role in that.

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 07:55 PM #2

Purek1ller
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Thats a lot big words, but I back it up completely.



Posted 20 March 2023 - 08:00 PM #3

Death Lord
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Big text, support all of this.

Nowadays staff doesn’t communicate at all, pretty much ban/mute straight away. No offence to the current staff team but old og staff would never have acted like this.

Posted 20 March 2023 - 09:07 PM #4

Tamby
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I don't see anything wrong with rule 1b. I'm not going to overanalyze the ;;rules but I'd imagine that rule 1b and other rules are intentionally written with loose language so that staff can use their discretion to deal with unique situations which aren't specifically outlined. Conversely, take a staff member who's having a bad day or has been in their position for years, they might not care in the moment and take advantage of loosely written rules to enforce them unjustly. So I see your point and I agree that it's wrong. I just don't think that rule 1b needs to be changed.

 

However, it sounds like more of an issue of - the staff moderate the players, but who is moderating the staff?

 

If so, isn't that why we have the options to appeal an offense and to report a staff member on the forums? I don't know what the latter looks like behind the scenes, but aren't those the checks and balances to make sure staff aren't overstepping their authority?

 

One thing I don't understand though is why some rules have specific punishments outlined but several rules don't. It opens the door for punishments that might not fit the offense.

 

Overall I agree with much of your post - I just wanted to share my two cents from a perspective that attempts to consider all sides.



Posted 20 March 2023 - 09:28 PM #5

Radagon
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I don't see anything wrong with rule 1b. I'm not going to overanalyze the ;;rules but I'd imagine that rule 1b and other rules are intentionally written with loose language so that staff can use their discretion to deal with unique situations which aren't specifically outlined. Conversely, take a staff member who's having a bad day or has been in their position for years, they might not care in the moment and take advantage of loosely written rules to enforce them unjustly. So I see your point and I agree that it's wrong. I just don't think that rule 1b needs to be changed.

 

However, it sounds like more of an issue of - the staff moderate the players, but who is moderating the staff?

 

If so, isn't that why we have the options to appeal an offense and to report a staff member on the forums? I don't know what the latter looks like behind the scenes, but aren't those the checks and balances to make sure staff aren't overstepping their authority?

 

One thing I don't understand though is why some rules have specific punishments outlined but several rules don't. It opens the door for punishments that might not fit the offense.

 

Overall I agree with much of your post - I just wanted to share my two cents from a perspective that attempts to consider all sides.

Well said!


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Posted 20 March 2023 - 10:06 PM #6

The Inferno
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If so, isn't that why we have the options to appeal an offense and to report a staff member on the forums? I don't know what the latter looks like behind the scenes, but aren't those the checks and balances to make sure staff aren't overstepping their authority?

I don't know what other checks or balances are in place, but appealing on the forums aint it.  It's like calling the police station to deal with a case of police brutality.



Posted 20 March 2023 - 11:37 PM #7

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Although I've not been subject to any potential abuse of power from staff, I do understand, and see where you're coming from. I recently just left a server in which I was a moderator/admin for 6 months. One of our core values was that we didn't act on impulse, and just let our emotions get the best of us because someone said a something either playful, or as a joke. I don't think it's right just to mute someone because something they said struck a certain nerve at that specific moment in time. I do understand that some mutes/bans are necessary, and justified in cases of extreme flaming, prejudice, and being and overall nuisance after being warned multiple times to tone it down. But striking someone down the second they make one joke, or even back handed comment just isn't right in my opinion. The first course of action shouldn't always be immediate punishment. As referenced above, it is like a police officer arresting someone say on a traffic stop just because they're having a bad day, and the person being pulled over makes a minor comment to them that they dislike.

 

Again, I've not been subjected to any "abuse of power" or anything of the like, and I don't care to meddle in the affairs of others and poke my nose where it doesn't belong.. but that being said, if it is happening, something needs to be done to help guide, and inform any staff member(s) in question, so that they may have a better understanding of what is, and is not a muteable/bannable offence.


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Posted 21 March 2023 - 03:07 AM #8

Realmungard
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Good luck with that XD



Posted 21 March 2023 - 04:49 AM #9

Death Lord
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I don't see anything wrong with rule 1b. I'm not going to overanalyze the ;;rules but I'd imagine that rule 1b and other rules are intentionally written with loose language so that staff can use their discretion to deal with unique situations which aren't specifically outlined. Conversely, take a staff member who's having a bad day or has been in their position for years, they might not care in the moment and take advantage of loosely written rules to enforce them unjustly. So I see your point and I agree that it's wrong. I just don't think that rule 1b needs to be changed.

However, it sounds like more of an issue of - the staff moderate the players, but who is moderating the staff?

If so, isn't that why we have the options to appeal an offense and to report a staff member on the forums? I don't know what the latter looks like behind the scenes, but aren't those the checks and balances to make sure staff aren't overstepping their authority?

One thing I don't understand though is why some rules have specific punishments outlined but several rules don't. It opens the door for punishments that might not fit the offense.

Overall I agree with much of your post - I just wanted to share my two cents from a perspective that attempts to consider all sides.

Have you ever tried to report a staff member? Do it you will see what happen.you’re right there should be a person to moderate the staff so our topic/report doesn’t get insta closed.

Posted 21 March 2023 - 08:43 AM #10

HoldinAP
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Amm, Staff SHOULDN"T view they teams members reports, its should be a different player/peaple that are not associated with staff, because staff will (in mine opinion will or won't give a warnining). In high rank of staff team should have structure rules that they have to follow, We as players have that, but there is BUT, for example safespots on alora, we can be baned/mutes/kicked for that, althought there is not a single topic for that, for player like me that doesn't know every single safespot in osrs i target myself to that list, i know am. So of course if i get broken the rule there is no help for me in that situation.

 

Being in staff team member every player gives respect to that team member, if he doesn't show it ingame, it gives. Some of the staff doesn't give respect back, that why player have to make THESE kind of topic.

 

And i want higher rank staff team member to reply on this topic in hes POV.

 

Maybe we are wrong?


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Posted 21 March 2023 - 01:46 PM #11

Monster Iron
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I have read only a fraction of the reply's.

 

As someone who has been on the receiving end of a lot of mutes/bans, I believe there is nothing majorly wrong with this rule, however, I believe that it should not just be up to the staff who was disrespected to permanently mute a member. I believe there should be a vote upon all staff when it comes to permanently muting someone, unbiased of the person who was offended. 

 

I have not seen any major abuse of this rule. If more abuse of this rule were to come to light, then I could support change.

 

I believe all members, including staff should be held to the same standards if a situation were to arise where they should be punished. 



Posted 23 March 2023 - 08:03 AM #12

Green eyes
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I just look at everyone - as if they're an NPC ...pre-coded, to Be That = which they are.

 

if i see a mod, and they seem........gey asf to me...like "HELLO K3K3K3K3K3!!!".. and live in La-la land..

 

.i can already assume that anything i say - that isn't...corresponding to their La-la land mind = is gonna have resistance from them-

 

and resistance to what im saying will come in form of = not understanding/can't comprehend what im saying..and the reacting will be "NO NO NO!!"

 

and then probably comes abusing powers...like muting/banning etc, if i continue trying to talk to them.

(not all staff are the same luckally).

 

 

so..do i really wanna go against an A.I. (or if it iS a real HUman...then, they aight aswell be a Zombie..cos brainwashing is Deep-- self-awareness..not even once)

 

take what you will from this.






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