41 replies to this topic

[Real Alan]

Buffing Tob droprates 100% support. On nightmare though, unless phosani gets made a challenge and slap you on the wrong prayer no support as you can pretty much afk it with the right gear

 

 

"you can pretty much afk it with the right gear"

 

-not true.  you afk, you run the risk of dying, restarting the 8 minute kill, and having to pay 250k to buy your gear back (this has happened to me lots of times)

-you're an admin so i expect you to back up your claim with evidence -> PROVE IT -> go afk nightmare 100 times and show us how many times you survive

-there's a reason why hardcores don't attempt nightmare.  it's not afk.  you guys need to stop exaggerating what 'away from keyboard' means.  you're an admin for pete's sake. 

-if you think nightmare is afk -> you may as well say nex is afk 

-go afk when the room gets divided into quadrants and you'll get stacked out in seconds

-miss sipping a sanfew by a few ticks and you can easily get stacked out with a parasite popping out + range attack off prayer

-miss moving a few ticks or get immobilized and you can get stacked out with the ground attack + off prayer attack

-get immobilized while you're away from the sleepwalkers, miss a tick, and you can easily get stacked out

-no way are you doing 6:30 kills easy with "afk nightmare" gear like mungard claims -> more like 8+ minutes 

-the total expected game time per nightmare drop is ridiculously not worth the benefit provided by the nightmare drops -> making it dead content

-imagine 8 minutes x 162 kills for 1 expected drop -> that's 21.6 hours... what kind of dangerous, non-afk activity has an average drop time that high?  

 

If toa is 1/25 and it takes 30 minutes -> that's 12.5 hours / expected drop

If nex is 1/35 and it takes 30 minutes to solo -> that's 17.5 hours / expected drop (less if you do 2-3 man)

Meanwhile you have nightmare with 1/162 and 8 min to solo -> 21.6 hours / expected drop (not including deaths)

besides... nightmare drops niche items... neither BIS melee nor BIS range... making it hard to justify the time investment

Assuming you use max gear, imagine the sheer amount of blood runes consumed by the scythe to power you through 21.6 hours of continuous gameplay for each individual nightmare drop...

 

Btw nex got a 23% drop rate boost from the 1/43 base rate in the last update.

I don't understand why you and mungard are so adamant on keeping nightmare this dry and unenjoyable for the rest of the community.

Imagine knowing that...

1. the Alora RSPS community and the OSRS community are different

2. that group nightmare is dead content on Alora...

Then refusing to improve phosani nightmare because it's too easy to afk for drops.

 

If that's your argument, you need to at least prove how easy it is to afk nightmare for drops.

Put yourself in the average player's shoes.  Do you really think they'll agree with you that phosani nightmare is too easy to afk for drops?

The only people who think that are the people who farmed nightmare on release before group nightmares died out.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

Staff team and forum moderators -> fact check this statement please 

See if you can find the gear set up that allows you to "away from keyboard" your way through nightmare.

Then tell me how long it takes per kill, bank, and return.

I guarantee 8 minutes/kill and 21.6 hours/expected drop is an underestimate

[Kyle Crane]

if you play the roulette and out of all numbers - you pick 18...and it lands on 27.

 

is it Your fault, for being shit at the game?

 

or is it Lady luck, who is seemingly against you?

 

or is it the roulette wheel and the ball - which is against you?

 

which 1 is it bro, it Has to be 1 of the 3.

 

or do you start crying to make the roulette easier by eliminating numbers/duplicating numbers - so that you would have a better chance of winning?

 

 

 

Also, please PLEASE make Ely drop 1:9.

PLease, im so Garbage - that i need that drop man, please Omicron - please do something, i m Shit - let all know this now.

JEsus help me.

 

Get good (in All ways, however you can) & stop crying.

[Real Alan]

if you play the roulette and out of all numbers - you pick 18...and it lands on 27.   is it Your fault, for being shit at the game?   or is it Lady luck, who is seemingly against you?   or is it the roulette wheel and the ball - which is against you?   which 1 is it bro, it Has to be 1 of the 3.   or do you start crying to make the roulette easier by eliminating numbers/duplicating numbers - so that you would have a better chance of winning?       Also, please PLEASE make Ely drop 1:9. PLease, im so Garbage - that i need that drop man, please Omicron - please do something, i m Shit - let all know this now. JEsus help me.   Get good (in All ways, however you can) & stop crying.

 

 

Eliminating numbers/duplicating numbers? What are you even talking about?
This suggestion is not eliminating or duplicating numbers on the wheel.
The numbers provided are the current weightings for regular tob and hard tob (regular nightmare and phosani nightmare).

The idea is to keep the roulette wheel the same, just increase the frequency players get to spin the wheel.
Apply the same alora boost that was given to Nex in the last update to nightmare and to TOB.
Consistency is key. Alora rates should not feel worse than OSRS.

Expecting players to invest 21.6 hours for 1 spin on the gear table at nightmare on a RSPS is way too much, especially when the drops are so niche (borderline useless).

Reworking TOB and adding a dozen additional ways for players to take damage and die, but keeping TOB rates the same also makes no sense. TOB rates were already low enough. Now with more frequent deaths from new mechanics and unpatched bugs, drop rates are even worse.

By the way, you have 0 TOB experience and 0 nightmare experience, so your feedback is equivalent to a frog stuck in a well's. 

 

By the way, Ely is already 1:7 right now (which is more common than 1:9)

Changing it to 1:9 would literally be making it more difficult for yourself and everyone else.

Only someone who's 'shit at the game' would support that.

 

If you're confused, I highly suggest you put on your big boy pants and check out my spin guide.

[Kyle Crane]

 

 

Eliminating numbers/duplicating numbers? What are you even talking about?
This suggestion is not eliminating or duplicating numbers on the wheel.
The numbers provided are the current weightings for regular tob and hard tob (regular nightmare and phosani nightmare).

The idea is to keep the roulette wheel the same, just increase the frequency players get to spin the wheel.
Apply the same alora boost that was given to Nex in the last update to nightmare and to TOB.
Consistency is key. Alora rates should not feel worse than OSRS.

Expecting players to invest 21.6 hours for 1 spin on the gear table at nightmare on a RSPS is way too much, especially when the drops are so niche (borderline useless).

Reworking TOB and adding a dozen additional ways for players to take damage and die, but keeping TOB rates the same also makes no sense. TOB rates were already low enough. Now with more frequent deaths from new mechanics and unpatched bugs, drop rates are even worse.

By the way, you have 0 TOB experience and 0 nightmare experience, so your feedback is equivalent to a frog stuck in a well's. 

 

By the way, Ely is already 1:7 right now (which is more common than 1:9)

Changing it to 1:9 would literally be making it more difficult for yourself and everyone else.

Only someone who's 'shit at the game' would support that.

 

If you're confused, I highly suggest you put on your big boy pants and check out my spin guide.

 

Reading between the lines, i didn't miss your point.

 

 

your point is (overall) =  "Make the Game easier, because --- insert excuses/"reasons"  as to why.

 

excuses/"reasons" like :

 

- "the drops are borderline-useless"

 

- "it's an RSPS"

 

- "oh for heaven's sake - it's shouldn't be this hard!!"

 

lol

 

 

THis is like a hunter, who goes hunting but can't hunt down sh*t ..starts making reasons like "the deer just couldn't stay still"....."this gun isn't made for me"....."the weather..i can't FOCUS in this weather"..

 

Right bro - I blame the wheels if my car doesn't start.

I blame EVERYTHING except for Me..

 

 

so brother : Don't wish life was easier...

 

wish YOU =====  WERE BETTER.

 

So stop crying, and just Get the Drop.

it that simple - just.....GET THE DROP..how hard can it be

[Real Alan]

Okay big boi, come back when you have 1 kc in tob and nightmare.

[Realmungard]

I see alot of people get super heated about nightmare being "too hard" and some statements about me are very inaccurate. And actually triggered me enough to write a wall of text.

 

1. "Mungard doesnt want it buffed cus its his money cow" I actually want it to remain a flex for those willing to grind it.

When I started doing nightmare, most groups were ending their grinds. Out of my 2000+ kc I did close to 1000 SOLO regular nightmare (With even worse odds than phosani now, while taking 13-17mins/kill), and prob another 500 were duo with @Extremedanny , and rest was trio/4mans with @Sit @mochiii (Hardcore ironmen btw), I did maybe 200 phosani and all of those (apart from 5ish) were after the nerf.(Got a mace and helmet and egg) Cus I did like 5 phosanis when it came out, and i got so tilted that i legit could hasta it down with crystal shield and camp mage pray, and maybe use 10 mantas/karams for a kill. That I havent went back till after the loot nerf. Im not the guy thats gonna complain about something being extremely broken and than turbo camp it. I did nightmare cus it was a great challenge for me and i took it personal that i couldnt get a fkn orb after receiving 3 staves. (Same reason Gimslaving did it) (Check the thread you linked, @Elsa even recorded her doing it with hasta and bandos in the thread)

 

2. People that grind nex now do it for same reason people did it when nm items were expensive: Supply/demand. Normies barely camp nex, they try get 1 drop sell it and start raiding as its alot more enjoyable. Most torva ingame is ironmen dupes that have been dropped for rank. Nobody does nightmare cus its items are worth nothing, cus so many inq items came in the game that 1 month the loot was completely broken. And there isnt any pking scene that has a need for orbs. People use it now to fill well as a set is 300m and it fills well 3x. As it has no other purpose atm, it aint a flex anymore(apart from on ironmen cus people know it must've sucked to grind it) nor is it used anywhere apart from DWH speccing corp/nex at start. I quite enjoy inq still in cox so i can scythe all vanguard/tekton/vasa without switching.

 

3. I personally think nex indeed is just as afk as nightmare with only difference that nex actually does accurate damage. If you can do the pvm while watching a serie, its not hard content. Honestly solo kree'arra might be harder than current phosani nightmare, cus with torva and blood fury, i rarely use more than 100 hp worth food/kill and thats with not even switching prays at nightmare (just camping mage pray and relying on turbo range def of torva) And dont bring the argument that you shouldnt need good gear before you camp nightmare. Bandos and hasta will do trick also, you might need 200 hp worth food a kill then. (Most people would camp nex before inq)

 

4. As I said prior, if people really want to grind phosani with better lootrates. Than they should atleast be forced to switch prayers and pay attention. Its not because its an rsps everything should be easy. You want people to PLAY/ENGAGE with the server, same reason tob was reworked, doing something correct should be rewarded. Phosani is a TanknSpank boss atm barely any switches needed.

 

5. I really dont understand why people want to make solo content easy and rewarding. For example im having alot of fun at nex now, cus everytime i think i saw the dumbest thing at nex, @Klam does a 3hp taliban zgs spec, or clicks the wrong collor tag and drinks restore istead of brew. Or fopaanz gets a b2b torva plate instead of helmet. And I'm averaging a drop there every 9-12 hours im there? (While being master donator and honestly being really spooned there). We see a drop like every 29 nex we kill as a group atm. Yet I also hear people cry about that boss. And want to know why people like @Fopaanz are 3000 kc and still miss an item? Because thats how rng works. Only reason nex is active is the items hold value. Else nobody apart from the same people that camp nightmare still, will be the only ones there. 

 

6. Nightmare and nex are very similar bosses. Their true hardness lays in the mental battle, as they're extremely tedious. People endure it at nex cus its an upgrade or atleast a payday if they get a drop. While Nightmare doesnt qualify for any of those. Nightmare legit has only its flex left of completing the log. And thats why I personally dont want a huge buff to its droprates. Every game needs a few really vile grinds that only a few will ever complete and thats perfectly fine. And then i rather have a non bis item be a flex and a turbo grind rather than a NEEDED ITEM. 

 

7. For people wanting to do nightmare, you gotta get a drop there every 7 hours MAX. Else its not worth peoples time cus you'll make more money/get actual bis doing nex which is the same, and ironmen will prioritize nex ALWAYS. And at that rate 2 weeks later you need to buff it again cus then the items are worth even less and by that time omicron will nerf the well value so it isnt even useable for that.  And might aswell delete the forum award at that point as it'll just become a generic award. 

 

8. -go afk when the room gets divided into quadrants and you'll get stacked out in seconds

If you stand in middle of the room when you kill it, you only can get husked 1x/phase, and never get flower damage. + you dont gotta move for the pillars, you only gotta survive the up to 40 damage from black holes, but they mostly happen right before pillars or during and at that point you just sang your hp up on pillars. Or eat a manta.

 

Want to flex the item? Grind it. 

Dont think the flex is worth your time? Dont grind it.

The payday not worth your time? Do something else. 

 

Once most people complaining here enter the real world outside of games they'll start realising that some things that actually really suck dealing with, might give you the most satisfaction after completing it.

"But mungard its a game", Ye and there is about 50 other bosses you can grind instead for fun. Please dont ruin one of the few grinds that're actually a struggle xD.

 

 

ps. I dislike clues can we make it so i get 15-20 items/chest its rsps after all. And apart from ranger boots none of those items considered bis. So why have to grind for it. 

[VARlANT]

The 1/9 drop rate for ToB is for the team. So if you're doing trios, your individual drop rate would be 1/27. Agree with your suggestions though.

I (and possibly others) were always under the assumption it was 1/9 for your personal drop rate since it's possible to get 2+ purples in a team. Since it's 1/9 for the team, and most people do 5 man runs (from what I've seen) then the current drop rates seem to make way more sense (people going 30+ dry for 1 drop).

 

Given all that I still think if we made it 1/5 with most players seeing a drop every 25 runs (deathless since that's what it takes to hit the proposed drop table) it wouldn't be too op, but I can't imagine Omicron wanting to buff the drop rate more, let alone making it 2x better. ToB for a RSPS does seem to be way too close to OSRS which i think turns a lot of players off.

 

I've heard the 'ive gotten (1-2) weps in 500 kc' argument way too often, and with the recent nerf to make ToB much harder, it's just going to kill the content off even more. Not to mention the scythe tanking in price due to so many players not needing/wanting it due to either already having one, ToA not reqing it, and/or rapier/fang not being too far from it to justify buying a scythe in the first place.

 

Maybe we should come into an agreement on how much kc would make sense to finish some content on average. For example, I always imagined most players would have tbow and most cox items in an avg of 500 kc (no data to back this up, just from what I've noticed through the years). It'd be my hope that the same would be true for ToB, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I personally think 500 kc to near finish a log for a raid that takes 20-30 minutes is fair for a RSPS, though I'm sure some of our sweatier gamers would disagree.

 

TL;DR: I support ToB drop rate boost for my personal reasons of not wanting to do 500 kc for only 1 or 2 weapons. I have no input on nightmare, other than agreeing most of the items are cosmetic at this point since most of it's gear is already outclassed. And I would want most 20-30 min content only take an avg of 500ish kc to be near log completion because I play a lot of Alora and still think that's a full time job if it goes further.

[Viverz]

I guess i'm just getting sick of completing things that become easier in a months time, i did nm my kc before the droprate increase, they've already increased dr by a significant margin, 25 - 30% if i'm not mistaken, a week after i spent 3 months grinding it, i felt like i'd just wasted a months time. Not to mention its damage / accuracy was nerfed.

As for tob, Its tough, i do think the droprate is shit, but seeing things become easier and easier over time sets this trend " whats the point grinding it now if i can wait later and save potentially hundreds of hours "
-Literally the reason zezima quit runescape

However, i'd rather see people enjoying these raids, i think what needs to happen is a point system / shop for places like cox, tob, nm even, ( the same way the rc shop works ) allow people to purchase more useful resources on the side or cosmetics, etc, i wanna see birds nests, soul runes, spider eggs, things that i can use to continue running raids

[Elsa]

Hello, I haven't really read the thread at all, but I got a @Mention and figured I'd link the video in question, aswell as leave some smol thoughts, and then go back to watching anime.

Using bandos and a zammy hasta, not prayer switching. First food eaten at 4 mins 40sec

*edit: On the topic of "afk", I'd consider it afk in terms of brain usage, not physically afk like sandcrabs.

My 5 cents on Phosani is that its not very punishing, and I generally wouldn't support buffing the droprates unless its made a challenge.
Nowadays if I go nightmare, I bring ely, full justiciar, and inq mace and some fun series to watch

 

On another note, all nightmare drops are super low in price, people are struggling selling eldritch orbs at 150m, helm and skirt is only like 100m ea, and I bought a staff for 160 not long ago.
I realize 510% of everyone in thread are probably super chad ironmen, and I can see how lowering droprates would be nice for ironmen who want to fill logs and get cool items etc, but the value increase for normies is None.
If there's 0 demand for an eldritch orb at 150m, lowering the droprate for an eldritch orb would just result in the player having to obtain more eldritch orbs than before to get the same amount of gp value as before. (dont yall dare to go on yell when there's 5x more pkers running around with harm staffs in wildy (jkjk idc))

 

If I was the Supreme Ruler of Alora, 'Elsacron'...
Then I'd want to increase the incentive of doing Nightmare in teams, as I really enjoyed the times when teams of 3-4 would grind nightmare together.
I'd also make phosanis more difficult. Maybe increase its ranged & melee so that its not possible to just camp mage prayer? It really feels like camping prayers shouldn't be a thing for Phosanis.

[Real Alan]

That's a clip from a year ago.  Alora has updated mage/range accuracies, so I recommend you test this again before stating it as fact. 

 

It's the same players that got drops early on that are refusing to give way for positive change in the present.

[Elsa]

That's a clip from a year ago.  Alora has updated mage/range accuracies, so I recommend you test this again before stating it as fact. 

 

It's the same players that got drops early on that are refusing to give way for positive change in the present.

It's not a new clip, you're right. I made it to highlight my issue with Phosanis though, doesn't that show that my intent is also for positive change?
sidenote is that I had only gotten 1x inq skirt when that video was made (from 650 kc), which really isn't anything to flex about

Anywho, if the range accuracy for Phosanis has been updated, then that's a positive thing! I'm glad to hear it :]
Admittedly though, I hadn't noticed that change XD

I logged on to re-test Phosanis in my usual gear (justi & ely)
And I still don't have to swap prayers, and I only ate 2 mantas.

 

Spoiler

 

(if I was the Supreme Ruler of Alora, 'Elsacron'), then I'd still like to make phosanis more difficult, I don't think camping mage pray should be possible.. (especially if we're to increase the droprates.. ?)
And I'd also like to increase the incentive for doing Nightmare in teams, as I really enjoyed the times when teams of 3-4 would grind nightmare together.

[Real Alan]

I logged on to re-test Phosanis in my usual gear (justi & ely) And I still don't have to swap prayers, and I only ate 2 mantas.

Seems like you stepped it up from crystal shield/hasta to mace/ely-something the average player on the server does not have access to.

 

Kill time?   What about if you include healing, banking, and running back?

 

1 inquisitor skirt in 650?

 

Say 8 minute kill time and 0 planks -> multiply by 650 -> 86 hours -> for what? -> 1 skirt that doesn't even improve your experience at nightmare

 

Try nightmare in full inquisitor and let me know how much food you use this time around.

 

Try with scythe and let me know how many charges you use.  That way we can estimate how many blood runes are sunk per expected nightmare drop.

 

The amount of work required for a drop at nightmare is just hard to justify–especially on a RSPS.   

 

Btw, there was also a nightmare bug going around that was causing players who kill nightmare to sometimes receive no drops.  

 

 

 

Imagine if we said (I'm being sarcastic), you can afk nex, not change any prayers, and only eat 2 mantas and still get a drop -> therefor Nex doesn't need any drop rate improvements here on Alora.  I was one of the people who grinded nex early on... so if I can do it... everyone else can... it's meant to be a challenge... we shouldn't make it easier because that's why Zezima quit... it's all RNG... drop rates are never bugged... the OSRS rates on Alora are fine... we don't need further Alora adjusting to make up for smaller playerbase/lack of worlds dedicated to activities.

[Elsa]

Seems like you stepped it up from crystal shield/hasta to mace/ely.  

 

Kill time?   What about if you include healing, banking, and running back?

 

1 inquisitor skirt in 650?

 

Say 8 minute kill time and 0 planks -> multiply by 650 -> 86 hours -> for what? -> 1 skirt that doesn't even improve your experience at nightmare

 

Try nightmare in full inquisitor and let me know how much food you use this time around.

 

Try with scythe and let me know how many charges you use.  That way we can estimate how many blood runes are sunk per expected nightmare drop.

 

The amount of work required for a drop at nightmare is just hard to justify–especially on a RSPS.   

 

Btw, there was also a nightmare bug going around that was causing players who kill nightmare to sometimes receive no drops.  

Ok I redid it in bandos + zammy hasta + crystal shield for you
1 manta, 1 brew


I feel like I dont need to say any of this but
yes absolutely scythe & inquisitors will be alot more effort, food used & money spent on blood runes
and yep, going tanky will be slower, yep, probably 8 mins

I can see how doing inq + scythe would get tiring

A good chunk of the 650 were in regular nightmare with 3-4 ppl in team I should mention

[Real Alan]

Thank you for bringing some data to the table @Elsa

 

9 minutes+ if you factor in regearing and occasional deaths 

 

No where near the easy 6:30 mungard claimed.  Plus it's not that afk.  About the same as Nex, but requiring way more gear.  

 

Dwh + sang 

I assume dwh helps a lot with speeding up kills and sang a lot with conserving food.

[H]

Surprised that the Nightmare boost is even a topic of discussion here, I expected everyone to 100% vote yes to that. I vote yes to both TOB and NM drop rate boosts. 

 

Nightmare has been outdated content for a while now, especially with content releases such as Nex.

Due to Alora's accuracy boost, inquisitor's set is literally useless. Volatile staff isn't used by anyone except pkers, and we have 3 pkers. Harmonised staff is equal DPS to sang but much more expensive to use AND gets out classed by sang due to the healing.

These drops are still useful on 07 which is why people still do it there, although to a lesser degree.

 

Other older content has stood the test of time, such as Godwars drops still needed to make other BIS gear and/or being a good BIS alternative that doesn't require hundreds of hours to achieve. 

 

"Only reason nex is active is the items hold value. Else nobody apart from the same people that camp nightmare still, will be the only ones there. "

Except for the fact that Nex drops are considerably more common, as well as 5/6 of the drops being BIS such as the Torva set for melee, Zaryte Vambs for BIS range gloves. There is genuinely no reason to go to Nightmare when the drops are as rare as they are, and are literally useless.

 

As for the "afk" comment, 90% of the content is afk except for TOA/TOB/Nex. There's nothing wrong with that. Also please let me remind you of the Boss Rework Poll, Kraken, Zulrah and Cerberus all failed which would make those bosses more interactive and easier. If a NM rework poll was to be made, it would 100% fail. I have a feeling if the drop rates were buffed but NM was made "not afk", not that many people would go there still. 

 

Also, I don't understand this argument of "stuff has to be a grind". It's been a grind for months, and nobody kills it lol. Obviously a change has to be made.

 

Lastly, the only issue that I can think of is that the prices of Nightmare drops will drop a lot. But they have been dropping, so I'm not sure what can be done. 

[Real Alan]

As for the "afk" comment, 90% of the content is afk except for TOA/TOB/Nex

 

 

If you agree nightmare is about the same level of attention as nex and nex is not afk, then nightmare is not afk either.  Just because you can camp 1 prayer while wearing BIS defense and watch TV on side, doesn't make the activity AFK.  -> and that absolutely does not justify keeping the drop rate so freaking bad 

 

I don't understand why there are some staff members out there that insist, "no support as you can pretty much afk it with the right gear."

 

That's a big exaggeration.

 

you still need to drink sanfews in time, take out the 4 pillars, and sleepwalkers.... all of which is not afk

 

what's the reason why nightmare drops are more common on osrs anyways?  

 

lets take a look at how group nightmare works...

Every kill each player on the team has a chance to spin on 2 different wheels 

1/97 chance to spin on the gear table 

1/487 chance to spin on the orb table

 

option 1). run big nightmare teams of 10 people. 

There is a 1/9.7 chance per kill that someone on the team gets a gear drop -> a drop every 2 hours or so

 

option 2) run phosani alone

There is a 1/162 chance per kill -> roughly 24 hours game time to do 162 kills (plus not enjoyable gaming alone)

 

Drops are much more likely to appear in masses. Since 2 rolls/kill

Problem is: Alora doesn't have masses willing to do content for such bad payout rates and such useless items.

So a buff to both group nightmare and phosani's nightmare is desperately needed.

[mochiii]

 

ima just leave this here so other people can argue about rates, gl

 

6kc vol at normal

rest phosani

[Real Alan]

thanks for showing us your nightmare log.

 

here's what mine looks like.

 

 

I did my nightmare kills after Realmungard got the boss drop rates nerfed (probably why my drops are so bad)

[Azhi]

I just got into TOB after never doing them ever and I 100% agree. Make drops more frequent. 

 

Side note: The amount of dedication and thought put into this suggestion is admirable.

[Real Alan]

Side note: The amount of dedication and thought put into this suggestion is admirable.

 

 

 

Thanks!  I got a lot of hate for this post.  I even got my veteran rank taken away for not representing Alora in a positive manner.  Cheers, Alora staff!   Threaten to merge realism, then wonder why the realism community flames back.