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TOB Overhaul/ Rework



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Posted 10 March 2020 - 07:03 PM #1

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TOB Rework | Overhaul

 
 
 
On this thread I'm just going to suggest some changes that I think would benefit TOB, and would encourage more people than the people who basically live there as of right now.  I'm sorry if any of this seems odd to those who haven't done TOB though, but this is mostly to bring up issues that myself and many other raiders have had.  Also to note that most of these are basically reflecting how it is on OSRS.  I have watched multiple videos on TOB, and I've read up on multiple guides making this thread.
 
 
 
First Room: The Maiden Of Sanguinesti
 
 
 
Now my complete honest opinion this is the only room in TOB that I believe is perfectly fine.  Seeing as how the Nylos spawn at the correct HP, and that the blood puddles aren't broken or anything I don't see any issues with this boss.  I will say that the defence on the boss seems low considering how shredded it gets when she's being hit with Tbow, scythe, or even a blowpipe.
 
 
 
Second Room: Pestilent Bloat
 
 
 
So the biggest issue with this boss, is that the walking phase is a huge joke.  You can literally avoid any damage taken at times if you're lucky with only 3-4 clicks.  Click off the boss to stop attack and another time to click to pass the corner once Bloat has passed it.   So to fix this, I suggest adding the correct Bloat walk.  During this Bloat is able to walk any direction, and it has the ability to have a sudden change in direction.  So instead of doing the same clockwise motion around the room, it could walk half way, then turn around and be able to attacked on different spots.  In addition to this, I believe adding the running phase to Bloat would be another good addition.  Bloat will have a phase in which it will run ~60% hp-20% hp (I may be wrong, but this is what I've read up on), and all it does is speed up the speed it turns corners etc.  With this players would have to pray range to avoid taking as much damage from bloatflies when they are on the same side as bloat. 
 
As a last suggestion, I think that being able to use your salve amulet at the chest at the end and sending it to the bank would be AMAZING.  This would help free up an inventory slot, and has no cons at all.
 
 
 
Third Room: Nylocas Vasilias
 
 
 
This room is in need of some changes as well.  The biggest pet peeve of mine in this room, is that you can't attack the nylos until they are on the platform of the arena, and you only have a few seconds before they attack the pillars.  I would like to see us be able to attack the nylo as soon as they appear form the den that they come from.  When the nylos are on the platform their goal is to destroy all four pillars in the room.  If  a pillar is destroyed, the players in the room will take upwards of ~35 damage.  This isn't really a needed mechanic, but I think it should be added due to the fact nylos is still a laid back room unless you're doing 1-3 man TOB.  Lastly I'd like to see the boss do its proper attacks.  The boss itself is supposed to attack twice, then change to a random phase, and not be in any particular order.  This would really increase the amount of attention you need to have when facing this boss.
 
 
 
Fourth Room: Sotetseg
 
 
So for Sotetseg I don't think too much change or any change at all is really needed.  The mechanics are correct for the most part, apart from the maze which isn't too big of a deal.  The main issue I have with this room is the being stacked out by the mage and range ball attacks.  Majority of the time theses aren't a big issue, but it's very very annoying when you're sitting at a comfy HP of ~60 and next thing you know 3 balls come at you 1 of mage 2 of range, and even though you can pray either mage or range, they will all still hit you.  Other than that I don't see an issue with adding a melee attack to sotetseg as well.. Mostly because it is in OSRS, but isn't necessarily needed.
 
Fifth Room: Xarpus
 
Xarpus is another boss that doesn't necessarily need much change, but this is all my personal opinion so please keep that in mind.  If I were to change anything about Xarpus it would be to fix two things.  First thing is adding the correct first phase to the boss.  At the beginning of the fight Xarpus will heal itself using the skeleton piles that appear on the ground for 6HP for each ball of poison absorbed.   This would be a handy mechanic to add because if done correctly, Xarpus would start the second phase of the boss fight with ~70% HP rather than the original 100 each time.  Lastly for Xarpus I get that the most annoying thing is getting your cheeks clapped when you're not paying attention or when Xarpus looks at you the last tick of your attack and you get one banged, unless you know how to tick eat.  Either way I believe adding the correct hit mechanic would be a great addition. The way the attack should work is as follows: 50+1/2(Player's Attack) Majority of the time if you're using something like a Tbow or Scythe this would end in a one hit, but I still do believe that this mechanic should be added.
 
Final Room: Lady Thiccums Verzik
 
I'm just going to give a brief summary of each phase and what they're like in OSRS.  I will miss some details like I have above, but cut some slack please! <3
 
Phase I:  Dawning is actually something I enjoy doing in TOB.  Mostly because I can do it fast and do it the correct way without error, but there's also the opposite in which people don't enjoy doing it at all or don't know how to do it.  In my opinion dawning should reflect on here as it is on OSRS.  This means the strategy of dumping your spec on dawnbringer, then dropping it to the next player so they can do the same.  At the same time someone is dawning players would gather behind the same pillar, and would be able to attack Verzik and deal slight amounts of damage.  If anything were to be changed about dawning though, I would like to see the spec be useful because as of right now it is useless and I would also like to see players have to stay with the team behind a pillar rather than chill at the back of the room and wait.
 
Phase II:  Phase II on Alora isn't too drastically different from OSRS, but the mechanics are slightly different.  To start off I'd like to say that Verzik is weak to slash, and melee should be the primary attack style used on her, but TBow and Blowpipe absolutely demolish her either way.  The next thing to bring up is the attacks she uses.  Verzik should use three different attacks in this phase.  She has the purple bomb, the electric mage attack, and the smash attack.  The only attack that isn't in Alora as of right now is the Smash attack which is basically Verzik will occasionally smash down and will knock back a player a few tiles dealing some damage and leaving the player stunned, but this is only dealt if the player is adjacent to Verzik.  The purple bomb attack needs no adjustments as I see it, but the blue electric attack does only ~6 damage even off prayer in this phase.  That being said the damage shouldn't deal as much on this phase.  Lastly I want to go over the nylos for this phase.  Verzik will occasionally spawn a purple orb that will hit the ground which will spawn a purple nylos along with four of the standard nylos (mager, melee, range) if the purple nylo is attacked with poison then it will deal ~70 poison damage to Verzik, and I believe that would be a nice QOL.  Lastly at 35% HP she should spawn 2 red nylos that heal her.
 
 Phase III:  So during this phase I will make it as short as I can because this phase is basically non existent in Alora.
Verzik will do a melee, mage, or range attack.  She will only focus one player with melee, but the attack is an AOE and does ~60 damage.  During the third phase Verzik will use four different special attacks.
 
1st: Nylos- This is the same as it is on the second phase, but there are no healing nylos.
 
2nd: Green Web Attack:  Verzik will start spreading green webs around the arena and if caught in the the player can be dealt 50 damage, unless another player attacks the web and frees the player.
 
3rd: Yellow Spike Attack:  Verzik will open her back up and launch spikes into the air one for each player, and each player has to stand on their own yellow portal/tile that is in the arena. If not done correctly the player may be dealt ~70 damage.
 
4th: Green Bomb Attack:  Verzik will spawn a green bomb and it will be focused on one player.  There's two options either the player can tank the bomb for 70 damage, or the player can take 5-10 damage and bounce it to the next player if they're adjacent, and repeat this 4 times so the damage is dealt to four players, but each player is only dealt at most 10 damage.
 
Verzik will cycle through these attacks the entire third phase.  Once she reaches 20% she is supposed to spawn a purple tornado for each player.  Each player can only be hit by one tornado, but they also have to deal with the same phases listed above, while dodging the tornado now.  Ultimately if any of the changes listed above were to be added/ adjusted, PLEASE do the Verzik fight, because I think it would be a great experience actually doing this.
 
Extra Thoughts
 
So I waited till the end for this, so people wouldn't just think that I'm making this thread for one reason, and that is.... Drop rates.  Everyone has their own personal opinion of the drop rates, and I will just state it like this.  The people who did TOB in the past near release date etc had much better rates than the ones there are now.  You can argue with me on that one, but I have plenty of supporting evidence that says otherwise.  I'm not going to go too in depth on this, but please just fix the fucking rates.  I don't want to have an average time of 20 hours game time per purple for this raid.  I get that it is all RNG, but it's more than RNG with this situation.  Also to add that I see more people get drops with deaths.  This is just personal experience, but when someone dies in a raid 1-3 times and they get the purple that's kind of awkward, and it's not a one time thing it's an on going trend.  
 
Thank you everyone for reading through this thread,  I rushed the end a bit because I typed this out earlier, but the website wanted to log me out and not auto save my progress.  Please leave some civil responses down below or some toxic ones because I'm all for that too!
 
Nice Scythe @Fand @elite yin

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 07:23 PM #2

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So quick question. Making TOB harder for people who don't currently do TOB will make it more active? But yes, drops are fucked. 



Posted 10 March 2020 - 07:25 PM #3

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I'm saying fixing the content and actually making it worth doing will boost the activity.

So quick question. Making TOB harder for people who don't currently do TOB will make it more active? But yes, drops are fucked. 


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Posted 10 March 2020 - 07:27 PM #4

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Support. I'm all for additions that make the raid more engaging. I would especially like changes to the dawn phase and bloat. 

 

Slightly worried how increasing the difficulty would increase reliance on teammates to not die and harm my drop rate (I know some people say deaths dont matter but ive been told otherwise as well). It would diverge from OSRS but maybe rewards could be more reflective of solo performance then team performance if your changes were implemented? 

 

Either way I would still prefer this extra challenge but idk if it will have your desired effect of making tob more active. Well-written post tho!


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Posted 10 March 2020 - 07:57 PM #5

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I like this thread a lot. Tob does need to be a bit harder it is classed as end game content after all. Especially bosses like Bloat and verzik. Verzik has like 3 mechanics overall which makes this boss really easy it needs more mechanics (on phase 3) like tornadoes, the yellow portals , webs and having to pray flick between the different prays depending on what she is using. For bloat it would be nice if he randomly changed directions and even ran occasionally like he does on osrs. With Nylo room I think we should be able to attack as they spawn on the walkway bit some people barrage them at the enterance of the platform you stand on and you cant even attack them til they start moving again which is annoying. With sotetseg the most annoying thing is when he throws 2 different projectiles at the same time and he will hit you 45-45 and you cant protect from it really because they hit basically at the same time. Maiden and xarpus seem fine. the exhumed skeletons were on Alora when tob released but got removed because people wanted it to be. About the drop rates I have noticed this to where more people who die will get the drops leading to some people dying on purpose and saying "i died for the purple" and whatnot. If I blacklisted every person who got a death drop most times I would have no one to raid with :(

Good thread though 11 good work! Hope to see some of this implemented


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Posted 11 March 2020 - 12:04 AM #6

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One of the reasons I stopped doing ToB was how repetitive and stale it became. Going 100's dry and repeating the same, boring, non-challenging content over and over is not fun and not worthy of being "end-game."

 

Support for all. I feel like Alora needs something challenging in the PvM department.


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Posted 11 March 2020 - 08:07 AM #7

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One of the reasons I stopped doing ToB was how repetitive and stale it became. Going 100's dry and repeating the same, boring, non-challenging content over and over is not fun and not worthy of being "end-game."

 

Support for all. I feel like Alora needs something challenging in the PvM department.

Exactly.  I get that this is endgame content, but like I stated we shouldn't have to consistently do 20-30 hours of this raid (not even including finding a team) just to MAYBE see a purple in our name.


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Posted 11 March 2020 - 12:30 PM #8

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One of the reasons I stopped doing ToB was how repetitive and stale it became. Going 100's dry and repeating the same, boring, non-challenging content over and over is not fun and not worthy of being "end-game."

 

Support for all. I feel like Alora needs something challenging in the PvM department.

THIS! SUPPORT!



Posted 12 March 2020 - 03:44 AM #9

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Drop rates are too shit for an rsps, and I wouldn't mind having extra stuff added to make it more entertaining.

 

 

My drops from tob on my master donor account, hilt gotten at 38kc

247889027c489b90fa6a8c1560416746.png

 

If we average out tob's to be 20ish minutes, that's 40+ hours, not including waiting for teams and whatever else might happen for a single drop, I personally haven't seen a purple in anyones name since like 60-70kc, that's 50 tob's without a purple, 50x5 is 250 chests and it's supposed to be 1 in 35 to see a purple, that's approximately 8 times over the rate which is absurd.

 

This is the osrs purple rate

b2576e25c0f97e0006967471ab2672ea.png

 

If we go by this, in 50 tob's you should see on average 5.494 items, I firmly believe that the rates are much too low or incorrect.


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Posted 12 March 2020 - 04:26 PM #10

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It would be nice to see some sort of rework done on ToB like CoX, too. Support.


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Posted 31 March 2020 - 10:23 AM #11

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If they make it harder like you said, they absolutely HAVE to make the drop rates more common than they are. Even if they dont make it harder the drop rates still seriously need a buff regardless . But, if they make it harder without touching the drop rates, even less people will do it



Posted 31 March 2020 - 10:23 AM #12

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im supporting it , alot of us been raiding and it get bored after a while cuz its to easyy imo , it be more fun having little bit of more real osrs content into ToB Also Agreed on plank system for purple haah iv done alot of perfect raid no purple ..and seen people planking almost every single room and still get a drop , im currently 90 dry with no purple in my name .. might planked a bit but thats dry af  Fix Rate or how point should matter to get purple 



Posted 31 March 2020 - 10:41 AM #13

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I attempted to make a post like this over a year ago... Went just like this and NOTHING was done. I fully support this but at this point, kinda pointless. Everyone (including staff) will call you a tinfoil hat for saying rates are too low, and troll you for complaining how bad they currently are. But again, you have my full support and I wish you luck.



Posted 31 March 2020 - 10:52 AM #14

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For those wondering what my current collection log looks like here it is:

 

19ec03b4215cb03cbe4d8005ca1ccc4e.png

 

Side note: Since the previous TOB drop rate update I have gotten four purples in my name.  2CG, 1 Hilt, and 1 Rapier.  These four were in ~ a total of 350+ kc post "buff".  So if you do some quick math that's roughly 1/88 and if you take the avg time for TOB which is ~20ish minutes that's THIRTY HOURS FOR JUST A PURPLE. As of right now I'm currently 168 dry.  You can say it's bad rng, but when I do solos, duos, and three mans consistently with deaths and no deaths it's more than just bad rng.
 


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Posted 31 March 2020 - 11:47 AM #15

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Alright, first of all, I would like to thank @11 for making this thread, I'm only commenting on this thread now after I've done some TOB lately.

 

At the time of the ongoing meme 1/35 I was like shit is hard, not gonna do it. didn't care much about TOB. then started doing tob,

purple kc#4 faceguard, and kc#18 I got dust...

 

I'm raiding with some elite raiders, @ Vespina , @EIM Sweaty, @Miya and other amigos. 

 

When atm I see @Miya still 250+ dry, Idk what's wrong their..... and others as well. Maybe ppl complain about drops and what not but the actual feedback you will get is only from the people who actually live there. 

 

I would really love to see a rework of TOB and a more deep look at the drop rate system. 

 

Thank you again @11 for the effort you took making this topic.


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Wow stuff, just wow.


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Posted 31 March 2020 - 12:00 PM #16

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For those wondering what my current collection log looks like here it is:
 
19ec03b4215cb03cbe4d8005ca1ccc4e.png
 
Side note: Since the previous TOB drop rate update I have gotten four purples in my name.  2CG, 1 Hilt, and 1 Rapier.  These four were in ~ a total of 350+ kc post "buff".  So if you do some quick math that's roughly 1/88 and if you take the avg time for TOB which is ~20ish minutes that's THIRTY HOURS FOR JUST A PURPLE. As of right now I'm currently 168 dry.  You can say it's bad rng, but when I do solos, duos, and three mans consistently with deaths and no deaths it's more than just bad rng.


I also went pretty dry. 164 dry with master donor, got a drop and I am now 80 dry with immortal donor. I know @EIM Sweaty is160+ dry between 2 accs that we’re all done as immortal donor. There are so many people who are immortal donor going 100-200 dry consistently. I asked @Omicron about a month ago if the drops were screwed up due to purple always being in the first spot and he mentioned he did this on purpose but he’s sure that all rolls work... If we could even get a double check on if that theory is true, that would be great. People think drops are fine because some guys get scythes or other drops sub 100 kc but the people who raid consistently are always going 40,50,60,100+ dry. Idk if the rework is the main priority due to it being kind of dead already with guys who think tob is hard but the drops need to at least be revisited and made sure it is coded the way it is thought to work.

Posted 31 March 2020 - 07:28 PM #17

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I also went pretty dry. 164 dry with master donor, got a drop and I am now 80 dry with immortal donor. I know @EIM Sweaty is160+ dry between 2 accs that we’re all done as immortal donor. There are so many people who are immortal donor going 100-200 dry consistently. I asked @Omicron about a month ago if the drops were screwed up due to purple always being in the first spot and he mentioned he did this on purpose but he’s sure that all rolls work... If we could even get a double check on if that theory is true, that would be great. People think drops are fine because some guys get scythes or other drops sub 100 kc but the people who raid consistently are always going 40,50,60,100+ dry. Idk if the rework is the main priority due to it being kind of dead already with guys who think tob is hard but the drops need to at least be revisited and made sure it is coded the way it is thought to work.

I'm all for a bit of a grind, however, when the most reputable raiders on your server all come to the same conclusion regarding the drops (including the person with the highest ToB kc, @ Vespina ), I do believe it should be addressed. These are not empty complaints, they have the kc and experience to back it up. Their questioning of the drop rates is not unwarranted. @Omicron

 

As far as the actual theatre, I'm always down for more fleshed out content. One you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy. Harder end game content is always much more satisfying to complete and rewarding. Support! 


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Posted 31 March 2020 - 07:32 PM #18

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I believe this suggestion brings up a lot of good points and questions. I agree with Maiden, bloat for the most part, nylos I agree that the attack range should be changed, but the pillar mechanic seems weird. Sotetseg is very similar to OSRS as is so I agree with you on that too. I'm sure you remember last ToB update with xarpus they did actually have the mechanic where you had to step on the green tiles that healed him, but it was taken out of the game to speed up ToB because no one decided to do it as it was usually a waste of time. Lastly, Verzik definitely gets very bland after 100 runs and it's very tough to have fun with the raid after a while. Overall I think it is a great suggestion, however, I'm not sure it would have the impact you're hoping for. Almost all of the suggestions make the raid harder, which yes, people that do ToB would like because it is new content, but I believe it would scare newer raiders away. Lastly, of course, the drop rates need to be fixed. That much is obvious and I don't think anyone would disagree.

The majority great, and I hope to see at least some of it implemented. Great work, 11!


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Posted 01 April 2020 - 10:18 AM #19

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it is hard enough to find a team to do TOB.

I'm not sure if this would help.

If it get buffed, drop rate should definitely have to get buffed as well.


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Posted 01 April 2020 - 10:46 AM #20

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Personally never done TOB but I'm all for more engaging content, as long as current dropr ates are correct, harder raids will have an impact on these saught after items. :D
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