9 replies to this topic

[My Love]

Hi,

 

To me, the rules a very much a mess at the moment, and i know they are to more people. Lets take a look:

 

Multi-logging: This is a HUGE gray zone. Yes, its clear your now allowed to do THE SAME activity, but whats beyond that is very strange. We are not allowed to do anything with an ''exponential advantage'' over others. Seems fair, but lets show you a example: im not allowed to run bones for my main, but its fine to thieve + do prayer. Running bones and using bones on an altar is clearly not the same thing, and thieving instead of running bones with my 2nd acc would net me more money. Still, running bones is not allowed and doing thieving with a 2nd acc is... The exponential advantage is higher with thieving...? So i guess we value xp over money...? 
I understand we cant just name every single thing in the rules, but this is simply too vague. I suggest rewriting it towards something like: not doing the same activity or helping another account doing anything. This does not include making money using a different method than the other account.

 

Refunds: hacked: As much as you guys thing 2FA is ''godlike''.. its not. Theres multiple reasons for this. These days hackers start hacking pc's, instead of accounts. If 2fa is enabled and the pc is trusted, the hacker has freeplay on the account. 
2FA is a #$%@ to set up sometimes and for some people. Ive gone through the process of setting it up with other people multiple times, and it has taken up to multiple days to get it to work sometimes. Bugs with time and errors still happen sometimes for some devices. If this person were to get hacked in the time they were setting it up, but didnt get it to work its rip... Seems very very unfair to me. Maybe theres a way to check if someone has talked to the account guardian in the last few days to check or something like that? 

 

World yell: advertising clan chats: this rule seems unenforced and should be deleted. Having rules that you do not enforce are very bad for the legal certainty of people. If they see some rule can just be broken without punishment they could thing the rules are not very strict and just take em with a grain of salt.

 

Lemme know what you guys thing and leave any suggestions about this topic.

Love

[Qtsato]

Hi,

 

To me, the rules a very much a mess at the moment, and i know they are to more people. Lets take a look:

 

Refunds: hacked: As much as you guys thing 2FA is ''godlike''.. its not. Theres multiple reasons for this. These days hackers start hacking pc's, instead of accounts. If 2fa is enabled and the pc is trusted, the hacker has freeplay on the account. 
2FA is a #$%@ to set up sometimes and for some people. Ive gone through the process of setting it up with other people multiple times, and it has taken up to multiple days to get it to work sometimes. Bugs with time and errors still happen sometimes for some devices. If this person were to get hacked in the time they were setting it up, but didnt get it to work its rip... Seems very very unfair to me. Maybe theres a way to check if someone has talked to the account guardian in the last few days to check or something like that? 

 

 

 

Having a strong UNIQUE password AND 2FA is what protects you, not just 2FA. How would talking to the account guardian help in this aspect?

 

If the hacker has access to your IP via a RAT or remote desktop tool (Teamviewer, etc) and you are either logged in to your account or they have your password from 1), keylogging or most commonly, 2) a database leak and because you reused the same password for everything you're screwed they could just talk to the account guardian and because it's essentially your computer (IP; MAC, UUID) there's no way for any staff to confirm that you were indeed hacked by someone remotely controlling your PC or if it just you or someone else having physical access to your computer

[Savitr]

1) The rule of multi-logging tends to be vague so that it is at the expense of staff discretion and prevents loopholes. It's a common sense rule. You can't aid your own account in money making/xp gains by the same method, hence why running bones is not allowed. To do prayer on one and thieving on the other is allowed because they're two separate accounts getting absolutely no advantage from each other in terms of profit or gains. One is leveling, one is moneymaking. That is allowed. 

 

2) If a hacker has access to your PC, and is able to pass 2FA because of it, that's not our fault. That's the player's fault. We don't offer refunds for a player fault of losing items or being hacked. You cannot "hack" 2FA. In terms of being a pain to set up, it takes approximately 10 seconds. I don't see how that's an issue when ultimately it's going to save you the hassle of your account being compromised.

 

3) The World Yell rule, while not heavily enforced, is there so that staff have a fallback in terms of enforcing it. Obviously we're not going to limit players from advertising clan chats, but at times it can become excessively obnoxious, hence the rule.

[huhamad]

yes rules need so no trolls 

[My Love]

1) The rule of multi-logging tends to be vague so that it is at the expense of staff discretion and prevents loopholes. It's a common sense rule. You can't aid your own account in money making/xp gains by the same method, hence why running bones is not allowed. To do prayer on one and thieving on the other is allowed because they're two separate accounts getting absolutely no advantage from each other in terms of profit or gains. One is leveling, one is moneymaking. That is allowed. 

 

2) If a hacker has access to your PC, and is able to pass 2FA because of it, that's not our fault. That's the player's fault. We don't offer refunds for a player fault of losing items or being hacked. You cannot "hack" 2FA. In terms of being a pain to set up, it takes approximately 10 seconds. I don't see how that's an issue when ultimately it's going to save you the hassle of your account being compromised.

 

3) The World Yell rule, while not heavily enforced, is there so that staff have a fallback in terms of enforcing it. Obviously we're not going to limit players from advertising clan chats, but at times it can become excessively obnoxious, hence the rule.

1. Yes, theres no need for you to explain the rule again, i understood it. The point is: the rule does not reflect what you are saying. Ofcourse when an alt is thieving to make money for a main this is considdered an advantage? You make money for the account? My point is: just word it a bit different, ''exponential advantage'' is just too vague. 
2. Fair enough for the first part, if thats what the pollicy is then fine. For the 2nd part: you ignoring my point and experience and just saying it takes 10 seconds simply is not true. Sure, for most people (including me) it takes 10 seconds, but others have huge problems with it. Many errors ect. 
3. If it becomes obnoxious this would just be considdered spamming....? An alternative could even be add a small section about this to the spamming section. Right now it says its litterly not allowed. 

 

Thanks for your explanations.

Having a strong UNIQUE password AND 2FA is what protects you, not just 2FA. How would talking to the account guardian help in this aspect?

 

If the hacker has access to your IP via a RAT or remote desktop tool (Teamviewer, etc) and you are either logged in to your account or they have your password from 1), keylogging or most commonly, 2) a database leak and because you reused the same password for everything you're screwed they could just talk to the account guardian and because it's essentially your computer (IP; MAC, UUID) there's no way for any staff to confirm that you were indeed hacked by someone remotely controlling your PC or if it just you or someone else having physical access to your computer

Whilst this is true, staff has access to trade logs and chat logs. It would be very obvious if an account just randomly traded his whole bank to an account he has never spoken to or w/e. The situation would be very obvious. Sure, this would take time, but hacking is the most common reason for people to quit a game, so to me its worth it to spend time on this. Might not be to the higher ups in here though. Atleast worth considdering.

 

Ofcourse, i am not a staff. I do not have access to all the methods and information they have, so correct or add onto anything missing. I understand some methods should stay secret.

[Endeavor]

1. Yes, theres no need for you to explain the rule again, i understood it. The point is: the rule does not reflect what you are saying. Ofcourse when an alt is thieving to make money for a main this is considdered an advantage? You make money for the account? My point is: just word it a bit different, ''exponential advantage'' is just too vague. 
2. Fair enough for the first part, if thats what the pollicy is then fine. For the 2nd part: you ignoring my point and experience and just saying it takes 10 seconds simply is not true. Sure, for most people (including me) it takes 10 seconds, but others have huge problems with it. Many errors ect. 
3. If it becomes obnoxious this would just be considdered spamming....? An alternative could even be add a small section about this to the spamming section. Right now it says its litterly not allowed. 

 

Thanks for your explanations.

 

1. If you (Player A) used 500 dragon bones on a gilded altar, for example, at the same time as Player B, the use of an alternative account to run bones will allow you to gain a huge advantage in regards to XP over Player B. This is considered exponential hence why it's not allowed.

 

2. I have helped players with setting up 2FA in a variety of ways although I personally have never ran into any issues. I do know a couple small flaws exist. One example is syncing up the time. We provide multiple methods and guides to keep you and your account safe. What players do or neglect is on them. I recommend and encourage all players to setup their 2FA immediately upon account creation and to never use the same passwords as before. Refunds aren't given for player neglect. If they take the appropriate steps to secure their account, all will be fine. We don't or won't disclose our methods of finding evidence of hackers and in most cases will be handled accordingly.

 

3. I do agree with this. It's not heavily enforced but when it becomes obnoxious, it does in fact become spam, which is also not allowed. The same can go for literally anything that becomes obnoxious or unpleasant. As for advertising your clan via yell, it's not enforced because we haven't had many issues with it thus little reason to redefine. I can see how clarification in this case would remove confusion.

[My Love]

1. If you (Player A) used 500 dragon bones on a gilded altar, for example, at the same time as Player B, the use of an alternative account to run bones will allow you to gain a huge advantage in regards to XP over Player B. This is considered exponential hence why it's not allowed.

 

2. I have helped players with setting up 2FA in a variety of ways although I personally have never ran into any issues. I do know a couple small flaws exist. One example is syncing up the time. We provide multiple methods and guides to keep you and your account safe. What players do or neglect is on them. I recommend and encourage all players to setup their 2FA immediately upon account creation and to never use the same passwords as before. Refunds aren't given for player neglect. If they take the appropriate steps to secure their account, all will be fine. We don't or won't disclose our methods of finding evidence of hackers and in most cases will be handled accordingly.

 

3. I do agree with this. It's not heavily enforced but when it becomes obnoxious, it does in fact become spam, which is also not allowed. The same can go for literally anything that becomes obnoxious or unpleasant. As for advertising your clan via yell, it's not enforced because we haven't had many issues with it thus little reason to redefine. I can see how clarification in this case would remove confusion.

1. Yes, i understand this, but on the other side if you thieve on a 2nd account and someone else does, this is also a huge advantage over player B, because they made a lot of money. ''exponential advantage'' can be interpreted in very many different ways, and therefore should be avoided. Rewriting it to something along the lines of what i suggested (ofcourse more words) avoids confusion that now exists a lot. 
2. as said, i guess this is just policy. What still bothers me though is: even if people have PROOF they tried to set up their 2fa without result, and just gave up for the day + staff knows everything about the hack and what got taken, theres no refunds. Guess thats just policy and i understand that. Demand for justice too stronk for me.
 

Thanks!

[Famous Specs]

honestly some of the rules are bullshit and yea some of the rules are there for a guideline so the server isnt just a do what the fuck ever u want server and the mods and other staff will enforce the rules where they see where they are needed. i myself have stepped out of line and thought the rule i broke was stupid asf. but the rules are rules for a reason. 

[Dante]

1) The rule of multi-logging tends to be vague so that it is at the expense of staff discretion and prevents loopholes. It's a common sense rule. You can't aid your own account in money making/xp gains by the same method, hence why running bones is not allowed. To do prayer on one and thieving on the other is allowed because they're two separate accounts getting absolutely no advantage from each other in terms of profit or gains. One is leveling, one is moneymaking. That is allowed. 

 

2) If a hacker has access to your PC, and is able to pass 2FA because of it, that's not our fault. That's the player's fault. We don't offer refunds for a player fault of losing items or being hacked. You cannot "hack" 2FA. In terms of being a pain to set up, it takes approximately 10 seconds. I don't see how that's an issue when ultimately it's going to save you the hassle of your account being compromised.

 

3) The World Yell rule, while not heavily enforced, is there so that staff have a fallback in terms of enforcing it. Obviously we're not going to limit players from advertising clan chats, but at times it can become excessively obnoxious, hence the rule.

Savitr puts everything perfectly. More onto rule #1, you pinpoint thieving on one account while doing prayer on another account. You mentioned that this is also exponential advantage while I do not consider this seeing as it's the general norm and is applicable to a lot of situations in which people already participate in.

 

Basically saying the monetary gain from thieving on a second account is an advantage (while I can agree technically it is), it could also be argued that doing barrows, or bossing, or pking, or doing a different skill which you can sell materials for money would follow that same example. If we were to change the rule in the form of the suggestion you gave it would mean you more or less can't do anything on a second account unless one is normal gamemode and the other is a form of an ironman (even then, could argue that thieving on norm can buy bonds which helps ironman). 

 

I don't think this would be a good idea to change to be honest although I do see the point you're trying to make. The multi-logging rule could be a page on it's own seeing how vague it is and I don't think it's worth mentioning every single scenario that could happen when it comes to that rule, just to say which exact ones are allowed and which isn't.

 

 

On to the refunds. To keep this one short since the first one is longer (could've written a lot more tbh), the idea around players having the opportunity to be refunded is in the case that it was required is because it was out of the player's control. You can very easily just activate 2FA with your mobile device so a 'hacker' can't RAT your computer to steal your Alora items, and I understand not everyone is fortunate enough to have a smartphone/accessories to use for 2FA, but you can get most virus scanners either really cheap/free so having that is good. Or just don't download things like 'Alora thieving bot' because you'll get ratted most likely.

 

 

Although I am behind Savitr when it comes to what he mentioned about this rule, I have had a few conversations recently about this and think there should be something done about it. It is something to fall back on when people decide to abuse/overdue advertising their clans over World Yell, but it would be nice if this rule was tweaked in order to reflect how it is used in-game.

 

I am not trying to start a debate over this just giving my honest/unbiased opinion. Thank you for the suggestions.

[Hot Cakes]

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